Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <a href="http://www.wesh.com/entertainment/25762705/detail.html" target="_blank">http://www.wesh.com/entertainm...ail.html</a> To make the story short, park attendance decreased, room occupancy decreased(but is still at a high number), Magical Express usage decreased, DVC buying decreased, etc.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer But profits are up, up, up! And that is all that matters. Who cares if the parks are stale?
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: At the same time, Universal's attendance is reported to be up. It serves Disney right to have their attendance go down, due to the bad quality they've been serving their guests the past few years. Hopefully Harry Potter will inspire Disney to do more than simply raise ticket prices every year.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<But profits are up, up, up! And that is all that matters. Who cares if the parks are stale? >> Are they? Sure, the company profits are up, but are WDW's? Somehow I doubt it. And we all know they want every piece of the company to be profitable.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Are they? Sure, the company profits are up, but are WDW's? Somehow I doubt it. And we all know they want every piece of the company to be profitable.<<< I join you in wondering. I too doubt it. But... WDC's profits are up. Hard to tell. Also, good to hear, witches!
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt >>Universal's recent attendance jumps are the first the resort has seen in several years.<< So in other words, don't expect this kind of phenomenal performance at Universal come next year.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper ^^^^Potter will carry over for a few years, if I'm a betting man. And by the time it's worn off, Phase II will be opening.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Sorry, Universal has some nice parks, but overall they haven't figured out a formula or brand that strikes an emotional chord with people that ensures that they can rely on repeat business. Building incredible expensive new rides and attractions is great, but that isn't a sustainable business model and unless Universal has another franchise equal to Harry Potter that is worth banking on I wouldn't expect to see that kind of capital investment at IOA for a long time.
Originally Posted By GOB Maybe if WDW Co. actually gave Guests reasons to visit the parks, they'd get some more business. For goodness sakes, from 2007-2011 they haven't added a thing. I've said it before on other sites, but the WDW I visited in 2007, 2008, 2010, and 2011 are the same parks. Not much has changed. In 2012, you can find me at the newly-extreme-makeover'd Disney California Adventure, far from the RCID.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 According to todays Orlando Sentinel Disney's profits fell 7% this last quarter. <a href="http://www.orlandosentinel.com/the-daily-disney/os-disney-earnings-4th-quarter-20101111,0,1156668.story" target="_blank">http://www.orlandosentinel.com...68.story</a>
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost Who comes up with these numbers anyway. All I have been reading all year is how crowded the parks are. That there doesn't seem to be a slow time anymore. My own experience at the end of September was that I had never seen it that crowded. Is it done with mirrors or is it a rumor started by Universal to make it sound like they have sucked away all of the Disney crowds. Last I heard, attendance is a closely kept secret at Disney...did they reveal it at a stockholders meeting or something?
Originally Posted By GOB >> Who comes up with these numbers anyway. All I have been reading all year is how crowded the parks are. That there doesn't seem to be a slow time anymore. My own experience at the end of September was that I had never seen it that crowded. Is it done with mirrors or is it a rumor started by Universal to make it sound like they have sucked away all of the Disney crowds. Last I heard, attendance is a closely kept secret at Disney...did they reveal it at a stockholders meeting or something? << Personal experience and anecdotal information doesn't necessarily indicate that profits aren't falling or attendance is decreasing for sure. Plus, doesn't most of the income come from merchandising rather than park attendance?
Originally Posted By Christi22222 Goofyer....I don't know these things directly myself, but have read them on this board and others. The parks can feel much busier without actually having higher attendance numbers. This can come from reduced ride capacity, like running only one side of BTM and SM, or closed attractions, or shorter park hours, etc, etc. And the restaurants are of course busier when free dining is going on. And shows/parades can seem busier if the number of shows is reduced, thereby cramming more folks into a single audience rather than splitting it into 2. Or everyone can be in the same park if the park happens to be the only one with a night time show that evening. So the anecdotal evidence is apparently very unreliable. I hope that one of the seasoned vets on here can confirm if this is true or just theories floated around by fans! And just an observation of my own...those of us who have been disappointed lately by larger crowds seem to be the ones who go at traditionally very dead times. It would seem that discounting by Disney, combined with internet information regarding crowd patterns, has lured more folks to attend at the usually dead times. However, guests who generally attend at busier times, like summer, have noted smaller crowds. So it might be a distribution effect as well.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 The park results were also depressed by the calendar shift that left the company with one less week of operations than it had a year ago in the fourth quarter. For example, combined attendance at Disney World and Disneyland fell 6 percent compared with last year's fourth quarter — but when the effect of last year's extra week was stripped out, this year's attendance actually inched up 1 percent compared with 2009. ---------- always have to read closely as results weren't really apples to apples
Originally Posted By leemac However profits were down over 8% - which means that either costs were higher and revenue was lower on flat attendance or both - either way it means that WDP&R has had to continue discount to keep attendance flat - per guest spending is flatlining. Take out DLR and DCL (and in particular the stellar performance of DCA in Q4) and WDW had a sorry summer.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>The park results were also depressed by the calendar shift that left the company with one less week of operations than it had a year ago in the fourth quarter. For example, combined attendance at Disney World and Disneyland fell 6 percent compared with last year's fourth quarter — but when the effect of last year's extra week was stripped out, this year's attendance actually inched up 1 percent compared with 2009. ---------- always have to read closely as results weren't really apples to apples<<< Exactly my point vbdad, but you expressed much better. Statistics will be the death of us all. It doesn't matter what we see or experience, it's what the numbers say. I think it was Mark Twain that said, "there are three types of lies, 'lies, damn lies and statistics'." I remember an ongoing argument in Vermont about the use of road salt to get rid of ice on the roads. The argument was that it was killing all the roadside vegetation and yet by simple observation everyone could see that the vegetation was right up to the very edge of the road, all green and all lush. Which was correct? Personally I don't believe anything I hear and only half of what I see.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 >>Take out DLR and DCL (and in particular the stellar performance of DCA in Q4) and WDW had a sorry summer.<< And what will the response to this be? (This is an actual serious question!)
Originally Posted By leemac <<And what will the response to this be? (This is an actual serious question!)>> They have to get guests off the crack monkey that is discounting - discounted rack rates and free dining have to cease or be dialed back significantly. However that will be a very risky strategy - I suspect attendance would collapse if that was to happen. So then you have your target RevPAR and guest spend but don't have the revenue or attendance numbers you've had previously. It is a vicious circle - they need to ditch the discounting and keep WDP&R revenue up. I don't think they will be able to do it. We have seen nearly a full decade of mass discounting now - folks come to expect it. If WDW Co. doesn't offer it then it will drive folks off--property or not to come at all. The real issue is DVC - points prices are increasing but the take-up is shrinking. WDW Co. will need to spend a lot more on marketing off-property (like the expensive Gateway showrooms in key markets like Chicago and NJ) to get folks to buy in.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>>Sorry, Universal has some nice parks, but overall they haven't figured out a formula or brand that strikes an emotional chord with people that ensures that they can rely on repeat business. Building incredible expensive new rides and attractions is great, but that isn't a sustainable business model and unless Universal has another franchise equal to Harry Potter that is worth banking on I wouldn't expect to see that kind of capital investment at IOA for a long time.<<< If they didn't have Potter, I would agree with you. But there is TONS of emotional investment there, I can assure you of that.
