Originally Posted By Donny I remember watching Rachel Maddow warn the Tea party "look out this grass roots movement was going to be bigger then the Tea Party" but I guess this is just another sign of how Democrats are loosing ground to the republicans and independents .
Originally Posted By ecdc It's always harder for Democrats to coalesce around single issues. It's probably the same reason Air America failed while dozens of right-wingers thrive. It's mainly because they have more nuance in their thinking. Simple-mindedness and black and white thinking gets people to rallies. Since the right can't think beyond bumper sticker slogans, it's easy to whip them up. But when you're actually interested in solving complex problems, you have to be educated and tackle tough issues instead of just chanting meaningless platitudes.
Originally Posted By Donny ecdc you really think the Democratic party has a better understanding at solving complex problems ???? 1. do you really think Obama care was a solution ???? 2. Cash for clunkers was a great idea ???? 3. the economy is better off ?????
Originally Posted By dshyates 1. Obama care was a deneutered step in the right direction. Employer based insurance healthcare is beyond insane. 2. Cash for clunkers along with the auto bailout saved oever 2 million jobs, got a lot of older model polluters off of the road and got a lot of americans into safer more economical vehicles. 4. When Obama took office we were losing 700,000 jobs a month. we are now gaining 23,000 jobs a month. When Obama took office the economy was in complete freefall. A total economic meltdown. So yeah, it is beyond better. It is close to a miricle that we aren't all learning Chinese. But you keep listening to the Beckster and having him whip you into a a froth about how Obama is the devil. And don't let reality get in your way.
Originally Posted By ecdc 1) No, it was a good start though. Single-payer is really the only solution to this problem. 2) Not great, but not bad. It gave short bursts, which is all you can really hope for with a lot of stimulus ideas. 3) You just proved my point about complex problems. The economy is a complex problem that was a long time coming. It won't be solved anytime soon. Many liberals and Democrats (not all) understand this. Conservatives meanwhile march against socialism and other bogey men. Mind, I was also referring to the general populace. It's not the leadership that gives Glenn Beck, crazy person, millions of listeners. Right now conservatism is about fear; talk radio appeals to that.
Originally Posted By Mr X Regarding your three questions, what do you think the right wing would've done that would've been so much better? But in any case, to take them one at a time... ***1. do you really think Obama care was a solution ????*** Should've been a lot better, but it's a good start. ***2. Cash for clunkers was a great idea ????*** A qualified success, sure. ***3. the economy is better off ?????*** Definitely.
Originally Posted By Donny where is the Hope in growing our deficit ? Where is the Hope in putting so much burden on the small business owners ? shouldn't we fear what the government can do somtimes ?
Originally Posted By dshyates Where is the hope in starting wars in 2 different countries while cutting taxws across the board. Where is the hope in cutting taxes on small businesses like Obama did. Yes we should fear what the government can do when the decalare war in 2 different countries while deleting freedoms in our own country like the patriot act.
Originally Posted By dshyates Donny, I hate to say this but you have fallen for the lies of the right wing hook line and sinker. Everything you think you know is a lie. Yet you seem to be an inquisitive guy. Don't accept the answers they give you. Find out for yourself what the truth is. But first you must accept that what they are spoon feeding you isn't true.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "where is the Hope in growing our deficit ?" Why weren't you asking the same question when Bush was funneling billions towards a pointless war in Iraq? <a href="http://costofwar.com/" target="_blank">http://costofwar.com/</a> Now that Obama is trying to use government funds to help save the struggling middle class you want to question his motives. Shame on you Donny. "Where is the Hope in putting so much burden on the small business owners ?" President Barack Obama is proposing to expand tax cuts for businesses, which the Republicans are trying to block. Do you watch the news? "shouldn't we fear what the government can do somtimes ?" Only when the Republicans are in charge evidently, since it's the Dems who repeatedly have to clean up the messes they make.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***where is the Hope in growing our deficit?*** Actually, he SHRUNK the deficit by 8% (stimulus spending and all), compared to last year which was still the responsibility of the Bush administration. Shrunk it, Donny. So, since you're so concerned about shrinking the deficit, can I assume that you will now be voting Democratic in November?
Originally Posted By Donny The federal budget deficit for 2009 was a record-breaking $1.4 trillion and estimates suggest that 2010’s budget deficit will be $1.5 trillion.
Originally Posted By Mr X You're right about that record breaking 09 deficit, thanks to the BUSH administration. Wrong about the rest though, do some research next time. <a href="http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iG3lb2nPhQZtiQYkhhdo1aKTxRdwD9I79O0G3" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/hostedne...9I79O0G3</a> **2010 DEFICT: The budget deficit is on track to hit $1.3 trillion this budget year, which ends Sept. 30** That, sir, would be 7.6923076923076925% LESS than 2009. Hot off the presses. So again, sir, are you planning to vote Democratic?
Originally Posted By ecdc I can see we're back to the conservative Whack-A-Mole game. Donny makes a point, we refute it by showing how Obama has objectively - not our opinion on things like the economy - done a better job than Bush or than Republicans give him credit for, and he comes back with something else instead of acknowledging his error. There is literally nothing Obama could do to get these people to support him. He could cure cancer tomorrow and these people would be whining about how it puts researchers out of a job. He could kill bin Laden with his bare hands and they'd say he's trying to steal the glory from our men and women in uniform. He could vanish the deficit and fix the economy with a snap of his fingers and they'd say he's trying to distract from "investigations" into his Kenyan birth and his Muslim faith. How can you be a thriving culture with such blatant, deliberate ignorance? Answer: You can't.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I can see we're back to the conservative Whack-A-Mole game. << Yep. The only way to win is not to play. >>How can you be a thriving culture with such blatant, deliberate ignorance? Answer: You can't.<< Exactly.
Originally Posted By ecdc Oh, in answer to the OP, the coffee party is alive and well. I get their FB feed and Twitter feed. They're having a convention in Louisville on just a couple of weeks. But they don't get on the news quite as much because their members aren't burning the President in effigy, joining Islamophobia, or carrying posters saying "We Came Unarmed...This Time."
Originally Posted By Mr X **The only way to win is not to play** WRONG, Jeff. It's very important TO play. Not to try and convince the unconvincable. Far from it. It's important to play, and play HARD, in order to show every fence-sitting independent voter out there how completely jacked their entire outlook is, and how bad it will be (will be AGAIN, I should say...only this time far worse!) for America. I don't reply to Donny because I care what Donny thinks, or believe for a second that he even pays attention to what I write beyond trying to find some talking point he thinks he can refute thanks to the advice of the guy on the radio...I do it because others might be reading and they need to hear the truth as often as possible.
Originally Posted By FaMulan I was just gonna say that ecdc. Also, the main tenant of the Coffee Party is something Tea Partiers don't seem to understand. That would be CIVIL DISCOURSE AND BRAINSTORMING SOLUTIONS TO THE PROBLEMS FACING THE COUNTRY. Not bellowing about how bad it is and being as loud as possible with no inkling of what would be needed to solve the problems.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I don't reply to Donny because I care what Donny thinks, or believe for a second that he even pays attention to what I write beyond trying to find some talking point he thinks he can refute thanks to the advice of the guy on the radio...I do it because others might be reading and they need to hear the truth as often as possible.<< Fair enough. As long as everyone pretty much knows that going in, and doesn't get goaded into being derailed constantly by sock puppets and trolls, I have no problem with it.
Originally Posted By Mr X For the record, I think Donny is not such a bad guy (the lame sock-puppet attempt notwithstanding). I just don't think there's any amount of convincing anyone could do to change his outlook (not to mention he lives in a conservative state and is a part of a conservative religion...I would be shocked if he DID actually manage to get beyond that particularly noisy echo chamber!). As far as trolls are concerned, that's the internet. It's funny that once in a while we get folks signing up at LP just to make invariably typical right wing comments on WE for a while. I would think a decent policy for LP would be, if you don't have a few comments to make about Disney first, you can't post a bunch of stuff on WorldEvents. But that's up to the mods and they don't like me much anyway so I'll shut up now.
