Originally Posted By vbdad55 Retiring in a few years - sending my resume for that $22.50 sweeping job now -;-)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^I'm not retiring anytime soon ... if at all ... I think I'd be bored if I didn't do something with my creative juices ... but still the way my field is these days, I seriously would immediately move to Orlando and clean up from the pigs ... oops, I mean guests for a year or two while the economy morphs into whatever it's going to be if Disney was going to pay me $22.50 an hour (for $45 an hour, I might even give back rubs!) I think we all realize the reality is most custodial CMs are making well under $10 an hour.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<Retiring in a few years - sending my resume for that $22.50 sweeping job now -;-)>> I recall John Lasseter saying that sweeping was by far the best job in DL.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I think we all realize the reality is most custodial CMs are making well under $10 an hour.>> BTW, for all those 'I'd work at BK if I had to because $7 is better than nothing' folks out there ... CNN recently tried to do an experiment to see if someone could live on that wage ... tried and failed. Now, not failed as in couldn't live on that money because anyone with a pulse knows that. But failed as in they couldn't actually even try the experiment (and said so on the air) as the whole notion vs. real world realties were so incompatible ... in other words, it was so impossible they couldn't even attempt to do so.
Originally Posted By barboy There is some custodian/janitor work out there where you really couldn't pay me enough to pick up a broom and mop. Anyone see the movie 'Clerks'?
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< BTW, for all those 'I'd work at BK if I had to because $7 is better than nothing' folks out there ... CNN recently tried to do an experiment to see if someone could live on that wage ... tried and failed. >>> While true, there is part of the story being left out. Not every job in the whole country necessarily has to offer a "living wage." For example, I think there's room in the economy for jobs for teenagers that often have a grand total of $0 in monthly living expenses, and work a job to earn spending money (possibly to support a personal car) and life skills.
Originally Posted By greatlakes Sorry for my delay in response. I have been wrapping up the holiday vacation. I was surprised to see the response about the high waged sweep comment and I want to stress that this is indeed an extreme case. It is true that some (and not all) CM's have gotten crazy overtime recently over the holidays. My point was that the payout of benifits to part timers has left a hole in operational staffing. In some extreme cases it's being filled by skilled labor from other departments. These are extreme cases though. It's really a matter of some CMs knowing how to work the system to their advatage. I was trying to point out the problem that it's cheaper to pay overtime than to hire more people. After thinking more about this, I want to point out that his does sustain the company in other ways though. Disney World has 60,000+ CMs. The great majority of them are working for less than $10 per hour ($8.50 in many cases). Without some of these overtime opportunities, many of them wouldn't be able to afford to eat. I have heard of some cases where that very reality is fact. I don't blame Disney completely as it's part of a much larger societal problem and Disney is just following suit. Even a $.05 raise across the board would spell millions in extra costs to the company. This arguement has been used by my employer and thousands across the country. It's just the economics of it. As we all know, the days of Corporate America taking care of it's own out of altruism is long gone. My point (and getting back on subject) is that mis-management of the situation has lead to Disney paying more than it needs to in overtime. Dave: I agree with you that sentimentality is a major commodity and after all, it's perceptions that make the Disney experience truly amazing. They know how to play to our perceptions and that is why weare willing to fork over thousands on vacation and leave happy. Even Eisner was aware of this fact and that is why Touchstone was created. It was a way for Disney to produce non-Disneylike movies without tarnishig and being hampered by the Disney name. Unfortunately, in a strong leadership vacuum and in stressful times, the very sentimentalism that comprsies the building blocks of the Disney experience take a back seat. I beleve it's because sentimentality is not easily quantifiable. Since it can not be spelled out on a spreadsheet, it can not be factored in to bottom line driven decisions. I am guessing you already know this with your business experience. It takes strong leadership (someone willing to stick their neck out) to make these decisions. Unfortnately, that leadership simply doesn't exist at Disney World or in the disney Company right now. Perhaps another suggestion for Team Disney would be to implement an anonymous executive rating system where an executive is rated by his or her employees. This of course lends itself to politics but the results might just shake up the status quo enough to make people there realize that strong leadership is needed. Unfortuntely, people at the top are usually ego driven and would be quick to dismiss un-flattering results in such a survey. This is where a third party to interpret these results should be brought in to assist with the procedure. I have also been thinking about one other problem Disney World faces right now. Disney has been posting record years recently. Wall Street is always unrealistic and expects a company to grow year after year (even after record years). Now that this unreasonable bar has been set amidst the weak economy, it's a set-up to fail. This has everyone at the top running scared. Once again back to leadership. It is going to take a strong leader to see through the current crisis and in to the future. Although I hate to admit it, I have to agree with Jim Hill on this one (see his post from today) and say that a good leader would be spending money now. Now is the time to plan for 2011 and 2012. If the stock's going to take a hit anyway, why not make it count and watch the investment in the future pay back tenfold. As a side-benifit, Disney gets the great PR for "investing" in Orlando during the weak economy (creating jobs, introducing money in to the local economy....ect). What does everyone think?
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << a good leader would be spending money now. >> True during any previous post-war recession, but maybe not a great idea in the current economic environment. If economic conditions continue to deteriorate and this recession is prolonged, the companies that survive will be the companies that horde cash and pinch pennies. They won't win many fans that way, but they also won't go belly up. I think a good leader will preserve cash flow until the crisis begins to ease and then begin to live within the means of that cash flow to get investment going again. There's not a whole lot of lending going on right now, so companies that are cash-flow negative have no chance to survive in the current economic environment. If you run out of cash, you die.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I was trying to point out the problem that it's cheaper to pay overtime than to hire more people< yep always - fixed costs remain the same <I was surprised to see the response about the high waged sweep comment and I want to stress that this is indeed an extreme case.< most of us who posted on this were just having some fun - dreaming what a nice retirement job/salary that wouldbe- we know better in reality < I don't blame Disney completely as it's part of a much larger societal problem and Disney is just following suit. < My phd paper ( In Organization Development) in 1991 was on the pitfalls of a services economy- especially as workers age and have no pensions/benefits etc.. at that time my comments seemed extreme as the offshoring of white collar jobs ( outside of IT ) had not started yet- and unemployment was low ( not having many people actually trying to eke a living out of a services job wage ) -- yet I thought I saw this coming ( and from listening closely in management meetings and seminars ) -- look prophetic today <As we all know, the days of Corporate America taking care of it's own out of altruism is long gone. < at even what are considered bell weather companies - this is so true. Just announced today - Sears to cancel 401K match <Unfortnately, that leadership simply doesn't exist at Disney World or in the disney Company right now.< very few corporations have this today, and the corporate culture does not allow this type of leadership to rise thru the org < This is where a third party to interpret these results should be brought in to assist with the procedure.< I would love to be part of this and have sent resume with accomplishments many times - what you find is that companies do not want to hear this. When you do an engagement like this you can tell right away when top down support will never exist.So even though they may spend $1m or so to bring in a consultant to look at results like this- after the findings are reviewed - nothing is done with them. Happens all the time As a stockholder ( as well as each of my kids has Disney Stock ) - look at the price over the last 10 years - after reaching $121 ( before 3 for 1 split) - it has basically lived in the 20's -- so there is no return anyway. Spend for the future now and if stock dips to $19 - the only thing to worry about is large pension plans etc- dumping huge blocks -- for most individual stock holders it would be fine. greatlakes - I like the way you organize your thoughts. As someone who has spent almost 30 years in corporate management for a major international firm -- it seems like you have also been in on many of the same discussions/ planning sessions, OD movement of the year etc... true ?
Originally Posted By bayrr326 Disney used to be a leader but in the last 15 years or so they have become a follower. It is mindblowing that there is no 5 or 10 year plan for WDW. WDW management is a joke. There are a few good apples but they are outweighed by rotten ones. The VP of MK has done nothing but turn that park into a stale, blah offering. Yes, they are the most attended park in the world(of course it took Tokyo opening DisneySea and adding more and more hard ticket events) for that to happen. As far as that survey that some people have talked about saying WDW could go 6 years without anything new. We all know whoever ordered that survey(accountants, Rasulo?) can ask questions that skew the survey to get what response they want.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Sorry for my delay in response. I have been wrapping up the holiday vacation.>> Vacation?!??! Who said you could take a vacation? ;-) <<I was surprised to see the response about the high waged sweep comment and I want to stress that this is indeed an extreme case. It is true that some (and not all) CM's have gotten crazy overtime recently over the holidays. >> That doesn't seem to mesh with what I've heard from CM friends. Many have had hours cut. I sure don't know anyone who has gotten 'crazy overtime' ... how about it? Em? Anyone? Are people really getting great OT? <<I was trying to point out the problem that it's cheaper to pay overtime than to hire more people.>> No doubt. <<Unfortunately, in a strong leadership vacuum and in stressful times, the very sentimentalism that comprsies the building blocks of the Disney experience take a back seat. I beleve it's because sentimentality is not easily quantifiable. Since it can not be spelled out on a spreadsheet, it can not be factored in to bottom line driven decisions. I am guessing you already know this with your business experience. It takes strong leadership (someone willing to stick their neck out) to make these decisions. Unfortnately, that leadership simply doesn't exist at Disney World or in the disney Company right now.>> You certainly have that right. There is no vision at all. No view of where TWDC should be in five years, in a decade ... or more. Even at WDW ... they have no plan. While Busch and Universal (companies that are in more turmoil than TWDC right now) can have plans and be investing, what does that say about Disney? Just an amazing vacuum in the leadership department. This is a company that built its reputation on doing the impossible (well, not quite but ... trying and making you believe they could). Now? They honestly don't have a plan for WDW's 40th. Ideas? Sure. But they, like the turtle that sticks his head out and decides he likes it inside where it's safe, Disney's Florida exec 'leadership' team has decided that doing absolutely nothing and waiting things out (while lowering standards and quality further) is the smartest action. These cretins are clueless. Really. <<Perhaps another suggestion for Team Disney would be to implement an anonymous executive rating system where an executive is rated by his or her employees. This of course lends itself to politics but the results might just shake up the status quo enough to make people there realize that strong leadership is needed. >> If you did so, WDW likely wouldn't have one exec left and there are a few worth keeping ... but very few. <<Unfortuntely, people at the top are usually ego driven and would be quick to dismiss un-flattering results in such a survey. This is where a third party to interpret these results should be brought in to assist with the procedure.>> I'd love to be hired to 'consult' on that project! <<I have also been thinking about one other problem Disney World faces right now. Disney has been posting record years recently. Wall Street is always unrealistic and expects a company to grow year after year (even after record years). Now that this unreasonable bar has been set amidst the weak economy, it's a set-up to fail. This has everyone at the top running scared. Once again back to leadership. It is going to take a strong leader to see through the current crisis and in to the future. Although I hate to admit it, I have to agree with Jim Hill on this one (see his post from today) and say that a good leader would be spending money now. Now is the time to plan for 2011 and 2012. If the stock's going to take a hit anyway, why not make it count and watch the investment in the future pay back tenfold.>> I'll have to read Hill now ... but yeah, it doesn't take a genius (and I would never suggest Mr. Hill is one!) to realize that now is exactly the right time to spend and spend big. Give folks a reason to take that trip they're thinking of now ... while getting ready all sorts of things to attract people for years to come. <<As a side-benifit, Disney gets the great PR for "investing" in Orlando during the weak economy (creating jobs, introducing money in to the local economy....ect). What does everyone think? >> I think you make a very rational, intelligent argument for everything I tend to rant about in these parts.
Originally Posted By dshyates Disney is spending HUGE at WDW. They are building the Bay Lake Towers, The AKL Villas, and the Treehouses. And from what I here DVC is a goldmine. So after the bucks start rolling in from selling the new condos, they will roll all that money into executive bonuses, oh....and rides.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^Yeah ... sure right after they put the money into the new Villas at Disney's Grand Floridian Beach Resort and Spa!
Originally Posted By -em >>Are people really getting great OT?<< Uh there are a few people getting OT but most its few and far between... For all of Dec my team was cut down to 32 hrs... I think the only day OT has been plentiful was the 31st when you basically had your pick of times, jobs and locations... Otherwise the "Extra Hours Roulette" has been coming up sour... I did luck out this week and get 6.5 hours of OT as we had a $$$ wedding that I was extended for (I wont point out it was pointless to have me in at 7am as it was the only event all day and started at 7pm.. and they couldve avoided all the OT by scheduling me right..) I also have a 6 hour shift tomorrow at DTD (only merch shift Ive seen in awhile..)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^Yeah. That's what I thought. I just don't see Disney paying sweepers $45 an hour no matter the circumstances ... Al Weiss and Meg Crofton would spontaneously combust!
Originally Posted By -em ^ Yup as for some pay rates you dont get paid your rate you get paid that dept rate (ie I make less per hour when I work Merch than when I work my job)
Originally Posted By greatlakes I don't want to pretend to know everything that's been going on and in fact, have heard about quite a few shifts getting cut as well. Some people do get a chance for OT during this period but I have also been told that it's not as much as has been had in previous years. Although this may not be great news for those who count on them, it is proof that management is actively trimming the fat. I also feel kind of bad for changing the direction in this thread and feel like I should help put it back on track. Enough of what's "wrong" and time for constructive suggestions. I have one: Implement a national advertising campaign for DVC. I see ads all over the parks and resorts but hear little about it in primetime advertisements. It might just be Disney's best kept secret for those who have never been to the parks. I'm not saying that they should spend massive amounts of money because I would think that they sell best to Disney Park fans. I just think that they may be able to sell a few more units with a TV comercial or two. Does anone else have any other ideas as to what WDW could do to help get through the current economic times? Also, How does it look this week at the resort? Is it quiet as usual or more quiet than usual?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Does anone else have any other ideas as to what WDW could do to help get through the current economic times? >> Yes. INVEST. SPEND MONEY! BUILD, BUILD, BUILD. Give people reasons to come now when they might not have, while adding many reasons to return for years to come. Don't sit on your asses in TDO pouring over room bookings literally week-to-week and basing decisions on that. Long term, visionary thinking. Amazing that at a company like Disney that it is in such short supply! <<Also, How does it look this week at the resort? Is it quiet as usual or more quiet than usual?>> Good question. This week, one would think should have been/be still moderately busy with the National Championship game down in my end of the state tonight (no, there likely won't be much of a bump by Gators fans, but Sooners fans are likely doing WDW either before or after the game) ... and then you have the marathon this weekend ... so, I'd be shocked if it was really slow. Any first hand reports?
Originally Posted By demderedoseguys My idea is to go back to the days when a trip to Disney was something that was a privilege, not a birthright. Remember the days when people had to save up for that magical trip ? Now would be a good time to step back to get ahead is my idea, since I think attendance will probably be down this year anyway. 1)Eliminate the special promotions that aren't so special anymore, since they are expected. (4 day gets you X number of days for free or the free dining, etc.) 2) Lose the Dining Plan and put out a better menu and food quality that meets the standards of people used to expect from Disney. 3)Bulldoze the Value resorts which would reduce the workforce and maintenance costs.This may sound harsh,but let those who are less fortunate stay off property like they used too. The point is that even those who can afford the moderates and deluxe resorts are too tempted by the giveaways at the Value Resorts. 5) Change the ticket pricing back to the old length of stay program with flex benifits.The longer you stay, the less the tickets cost notion is ridiculous. 6) Cater to the many people who still have $$ and who can still will spend the extra money for better service and resorts. Charge more for the deluxe resorts, but make sure people get what they are paying for. 7) Lose DME. Another giveaway. IMO it doesn't add any value or entice anyone to stay at WDW. If someone plans a trip to WDW, they are going to come whether DME exists or not. Sound crazy? Maybe. The whole premise of this is to make people pay top dollar for a Disney trip, but give them top dollar service.
