Originally Posted By ecdc I know this might be a touchy topic for pet lovers and pet owners. I'm not without my own appreciation of dogs - I grew up with two and loved them both. But I just saw on CNN.com that yet another kid was killed by a pit bull. The house behind me has two pit bulls and whenever we step outside, they're right up against the fence, barking non-stop. Doesn't matter if we're out there for 5 minutes or three hours - they won't shut up. Why do people feel like it's necessary to own such dangerous animals? I'm sick of reading in the news about some poor kid getting their face chewed off by an animal that's bred to be deadly.
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy You're sick of reading it in the news? I'm sick of seeing stories about it in the news---at my job. I've had this gig for 3 years next month, and I'm amazed at all of the pit bull stories I see---none with happy endings. So many hurt children (and sometimes adults), and so many ignorant, careless "owners". What I find interesting is I've always heard Rottweilers are incredibly dangerous and unpredictable, but I don't think I've ever had a news story at work with those. Every dog attack story I can remember doing---and there have been plenty---have been pit bulls. I don't know what's with that breed, but it doesn't sound like they need to be encouraged to breed any more than nature wills. There's an episode of "Mama's Family" where Mama has to babysit the chaotic grandson of the reverend and his wife. When the wife asks Mama's neighbor Iola if she'd like a boy like him, Iola says, "If I wanted one like him I'd get a pit bull!" and there's a good laugh from the audience. Now I know why!
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I'm not so sure that Pit Bulls as a breed are bred to be deadly. I _do_ think some breeds require more attention than others, meaning they require more exercise and/or training. My dog, a Chow Chow, has a similar reputation as the Pit Bull, and I constantly hear people within earshot say something about it when I am walking him. But he is great around people. I make sure he is constantly exposed to people, especially children, and that he gets a proper amount of exercise. If more dog owners did that, these tragedies would never occur.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>But he is great around people. I make sure he is constantly exposed to people, especially children, and that he gets a proper amount of exercise. If more dog owners did that, these tragedies would never occur.<< And this is why I said this might be a sensitive topic. I don't mean to offend dog owners, but I just don't buy this line of reasoning. Would it decrease the amount of attacks? Probably. Eliminate them? No way. Any time I read one of these stories it's accompanied by the obligatory statement from the owners that the dog never did anything like this before and how convinced they were that it wouldn't hurt a fly. These are animals; they have years of evolution and breeding behind them to attack when they feel threatened. I don't care if you're Roy Horn who's worked with a tiger for 80 years in front of crowds every night, or if you're Steve Irwin, the victim of an extremely rare attack, or a dog owner. There is absolutely no way to guarantee that an animal won't attack. Do I believe all dogs or pets should be outlawed or banned because there's no way to ensure they won't attack someone? Of course not. Do I think it's a coincidence that pit bulls are always the dog showing up in the news? No way. Would I shed any tears if pit bulls were legally banned from breeding and private ownership. Not for a second. Would I feel better about having my four and three year old play outside if I knew that my neighbors pit bulls were gone, out of the picture? Absolutely.
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy <Any time I read one of these stories it's accompanied by the obligatory statement from the owners that the dog never did anything like this before and how convinced they were that it wouldn't hurt a fly.> And those are some pretty ignorant owners if, in cases like the house behind you, the dogs are right up against the fence barking non-stop anytime someone is in sight.
Originally Posted By avromark ^^^ My guess is the owners have similar temperament. I find more laid back people prefer a pet with a laid back temperament. Look even a Chihuahua can have a very aggressive personality. For example when we were younger we each had a white-bellied hedgehog each, my sister (who is a "slightly" aggressive person) hedgehog bit first and hissed a lot. (This is probably because of how she treated him). Even after she tired of him, he still would bite. You had to wear work gloves to pick him up.
Originally Posted By avromark Oh and she also gave him a rather vulgar name that I can't repeat here.
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy I also believe some owners are just plain ignorant and careless.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss The reason why it's not a coincidence is because a Pit Bull is a powerful dog. I do not believe they are any more prone to attacking than any other breed of dog, but because they are more powerful, more damage occurs when one does does attack. What it comes down to is responsibilty. Dogs need discipline, and that does not mean hitting it when it does something wrong; training, and that does not mean teaching it to roll over and do tricks; and exercise, and that does not mean opening the door to let it run around the yard.
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy <I do not believe they are any more prone to attacking than any other breed of dog> No more so than collies? Than sheepdogs? Than basset hounds? I can't buy that viewpoint. Then again, the only dog attack stories I've been seeing for 3 years on the job are pit bulls (to the best of my recollection). The collies we've had certainly never attacked anyone. They weren't even wary of people they didn't know coming onto the property. It seems to me you would *have* to say pit bulls are one of, if not the most, aggressive breeds of dog there is.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Okay, let me put it another way: I don't believe they are any more prone to attacking IF they are raised properly. As I said earlier, some breeds need more attention from their owners. But any dog that is not given the attention that it needs will dangerous, even the little ones. But you don't hear about little dogs killing people very often, because they happen to be small and can't do the damage that a larger dog can.
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy If they are raised properly---I would hope so. It does seem like in all the news stories of pit bull attacks, the owners are ignorant or don't care or unintelligent when it comes to an animal's best interests.
Originally Posted By DlandJB I seem to remember that pit bulls lock their jaws when they attack, so other breeds may bite as often, but they don't hang on, which causes greater damage. It is how they were bred. And it is their fierceness which attracts most of the owners who want them. They they discover they can't handle the dog or are unwilling to put in the time such a breed needs to be more safe to others. They abandon them. These are animals who are only doing what instinct tells them to do. I wish someone would try to breed into them some gentleness. Until then, they are not really safe as family pets.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan From wikipedia... >>Some large breeds have surged in popularity in recent years, such as pit bull-type dogs, Rottweilers, and other similar muscular breeds. Not unexpectedly, attacks involving such breeds have also become more common. This has occurred historically; for example, when German Shepherd Dogs were among the most common breeds chosen as pets, attacks by German Shepherds also increased. As a result, many countries and municipalities have enacted breed-specific legislation in an attempt to prevent additional attacks from the dogs perceived to be dangerous. Considerable controversy reigns about such legislation. Proponents might argue that pit bulls and certain other breeds are inherently aggressive towards humans and shouldn't be allowed at all, or they might simply argue that since the breed is so popular, they are often owned by irresponsible owners who provide insufficient training or, worse, aggressiveness training, and that controlling the breed is the best way to control the irresponsible owners. Opponents might argue that no breed is inherently aggressive towards humans or that regulating one breed simply moves the irresponsible owners to start focusing on breeds that haven't yet been regulated, moving the problem to other breeds. It is extremely difficult to establish the inherent human aggressiveness of a breed in general.<< TDG wrote: >>It does seem like in all the news stories of pit bull attacks, the owners are ignorant or don't care or unintelligent when it comes to an animal's best interests.<< I truly believe that it attacks are MOSTLY due to pet owners poor care/training. Some jugheads out there get a pitbull or similar breed because it's a 'tough' dog -- it's a fashion accessory for them as much as a little French poodle might be to some socialite. People who leave a pitbull chained up all day, or play rough tug of war and aggressive games are just training the dog to be more aggressive.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I seem to remember that pit bulls lock their jaws when they attack<< I don't believe that's actually true. But they do tend to not let go once they bite onto something, so even though technically no dog has 'locking jaws' the effect is similar.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan From americanhumane.org: >>Avoid being bitten There are steps individuals can take to protect themselves against being bitten by a dog. Never approach a dog you don't know or a dog that is alone without its owner, especially if the dog is behind a fence, tied with a rope or chain, or in a parked car. Never approach a dog that is eating, sleeping, or guarding something. Dogs naturally guard their babies, food, bones, and toys. Never chase or tease dogs. Don't poke, hit, pull, or pinch a dog. Never approach a dog (or any animal) that is injured. Always ask the owner's permission before petting a dog. NEVER leave a baby or small child alone with a dog. When approached by a strange dog: Do not run away. Dogs have a natural instinct to chase and catch things. Do not make eye contact with the dog. Stand very still like a statue with your arms at your sides, or back away slowly and quietly. In a loud, commanding voice, tell the dog to "go away." If you are attacked, give the dog an object, such as a jacket or backpack to bite or chew on. If you fall or are knocked to the ground: Curl into a ball. Protect your face by covering your head and neck. Put your hands over your ears. Prevent dog attacks: What can pet owners do? Choose your dog carefully. Select a breed or type of dog that is appropriate for your family and home. Socialize your dog. Be sure your dog interacts with all members of the family, as well as people outside the family and with other animals. License your dog, obey leash laws, and take care to properly fence yards. Dogs that are allowed to roam loose outside the yard expand their "territory," and will often defend it aggressively. Neuter your dog. Neutering reduces aggression, especially in males. Un-neutered dogs are more than 2.6 times more likely to bite than neutered dogs. Train your dog. Basic obedience training is as important for the owner as it is for the dog. Maintain your dog's health. Not only is it the right thing for the dog, but it also reduces bite responses caused by pain or irritability. Be sure your dog is vaccinated for rabies and other diseases. Provide your dog with adequate food, shelter, exercise, and affection. Tethering or chaining dogs makes them feel vulnerable and increases their aggression. Don't play aggressive games with your dog.<<
Originally Posted By DAR <<I don't believe that's actually true. But they do tend to not let go once they bite onto something, so even though technically no dog has 'locking jaws' the effect is similar.>> A few weeks ago before my dog past away, she was eating a raw piece of meat that she couldn't have. Trying to get that thing out of her mouth was like pulling two magnets apart.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<I truly believe that it attacks are MOSTLY due to pet owners poor care/training. Some jugheads out there get a pitbull or similar breed because it's a 'tough' dog -- it's a fashion accessory for them as much as a little French poodle might be to some socialite.>> That's my take on it. Many people choose a dog based on looks, and which one looked at them the right way at the pet shop, shelter, or where ever else they got the dog. They don't consider the temperment of the dog, or any other special considerations.
Originally Posted By jonvn Different dogs have different temperaments. There is a lot of difference between a golden retriever and a pit bull.
Originally Posted By avromark <<Different dogs have different temperaments>> But even within the same breed there is a world of difference, and in many breeds a difference between the temperaments of a female and male. For example on my street we have 3 Rotties, 1 is well behaved as long as you don't lean on his fence, 1 is gentle to a fault, 1 is extremely aggressive. The very gentle one is a runt female. The now well behaved but formerly more aggressive rottie seemed to calm down when the owners got a mastiff Puppy, within a few months of trying to dominate the mastiff he gave up. If the mastiff wants to lay by their patio doors he moves, he used to try to show domination (Dog owners will probably know how I mean), but once the mastiff got older he couldn't. If the mastiff barks at him, he shuts up. The other one has had people call on my street several times to report the dogs behavior. I wish the city would do something, this dog lunges at the fence and snarls. Again repeating some sentiments earlier, this dog also has a very aggressive (and small) owner. I'm guessing this is an owner that doesn't want to take the time to ensure his dog is well behaved.
