When it's science vs religion, science always wins

Originally Posted By mawnck

>>A dangerous measles outbreak has been traced to a megachurch in Texas whose leader told followers to stay away from vaccines.

Terri Pearsons, the daughter of prominent televangelist Kenneth Copeland, and the leader of Eagle Mountain International Church in Newark, Texas, has long warned followers to stay away from vaccines, promoting the idea that they cause autism. The un-vaccinated congregation was recently put in danger when a member left the country and came in contact with measles. They then returned to Texas, where they interacted with the congregation, as well as handled children in the church's on-site day-care center.<<

<a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://gawker.com/texas-measles-outbreak-traced-to-anti-vaccine-megachurc-1197363514">http://gawker.com/texas-measle...97363514</a>

 

Originally Posted By Tikiduck

Finally, something we can agree on.

 

Originally Posted By Labuda

In other news, only morons think that vaccines cause autism.

Oh, and people breathe oxygen, just in case nobody knew that basic fact, either.

 

Originally Posted By ecdc

Some of the comments on that Gawker article are pure gold.

>>"Following the outbreak, Pearsons has called on all congregants to become vaccinated."

It's a miracle!<<

 

Originally Posted By TomSawyer

cOnc0rdance's wager:


"In the whole of human history, there has never been a single case when the supernatural explanation turned out to be the right one. Betting on science, when it conflicts with religious belief, is a pretty safe bet."

 

Originally Posted By DDMAN26

Science does prevail but there's nothing wrong with a little faith

 

Originally Posted By TomSawyer

Unless that faith causes you to reject that which is observable, testable, provable and repeatable.

 

Originally Posted By ecdc

>>there's nothing wrong with a little faith<<

That's probably true. Churches aren't exactly known for their "only have a little faith, too much is a bad thing" message though. Which is how we end up with stories like the OP.

 

Originally Posted By TomSawyer

The vaccination issue is a perfect example. There is no research that shows a connection between vaccinations and autism, while there is a massive body of work showing that there is no connection, causative or correlative. This work is available to be reviewed online, with complete descriptions of the methods used to test the hypotheses. You can even contact the researchers directly with any questions.

But one person stands up in front of a crowd of adoring fans on Sunday morning and preys on their credulity. They mistake their own political views for religious messages, imposing their fears about big gummint and their ignorance of science on their congregations.

Mis that together and you have a situation in which faith - faith in their version of God, faith in the rightness of their politics, faith in anecdotal stories as representative of global truths - rejects that which is objectively true.

 

Originally Posted By ecdc

Even benign-sounding magical thinking is problematic--it usually creates a chain reaction of ignorance.

Take, for example, a nice, decent Christian who says they don't believe in evolution. Perhaps irritating, but mostly harmless, some would say. But if you believe in creationism, then other assumptions will flow from that false belief. Everything from teenage abstinence (if God made us this way, teens can resist sex because their urges aren't rooted in evolutionary biology) to climate change (God gave us the earth and he won't let us destroy it). Yes, I understand, there are progressive Christians who reject such silliness, and even use their belief in God to bolster their liberal politics, and that's excellent.

But there are tens of millions of Americans who engage in magical thinking and believe completely falsified, totally debunked nonsense. This thinking influences other thinking, and it creates a toxic environment of ignorance. Then these people step out of their Ford pickup truck, walk past their "Jesus is Lord" bumper sticker, and right on into the voting booth at the school next door to the Creationist Museum.

 

Originally Posted By TomSawyer

"a toxic environment of ignorance"

We just call that "the South."

 

Originally Posted By Tikiduck

I have a nephew who, along with his wife, have had six children while they are still in their twenties. None of them have been properly vaccinated due to their strong religious beliefs, and their last child has been diagnosed with autism.
They have basically become wards of the state welfare system due to the parent's lack of education, working, and planning skills.
Through it all, they have maintained the attitude that God is in charge of every aspect of their lives, which seems to have somehow released them from the job of being responsible adults.

 

Originally Posted By barboy

///six children///

I will assume---as Harry Chapin might say--- that they "came to world in the usual way"....

...willfully creating 6 today(assuming the first 5 are still alive) is wholly irresponsible at face value already.


Someone best tell folk like this that this isn't the 1880's out on a Nebraska wheat farm.

 

Originally Posted By TomSawyer

I doubt it was willful, but ignorant. If God didn't want them to be fruitful and multiply then he wouldn't have let the fecund wife become with child. It isn't for man to defy God's will by taking steps to prevent pregnancy.

 

Originally Posted By DDMAN26

My dad had hip replacement surgery earlier this year. He had one of the best in the country doing the procedure. So while I was confident that the surgeon would do a great job and he did, I still prayed for everything to go great and it did.

 

Originally Posted By Labuda

"Unless that faith causes you to reject that which is observable, testable, provable and repeatable."

Amen.

 

Originally Posted By pirviii

"My dad had hip replacement surgery earlier this year. He had one of the best in the country doing the procedure. So while I was confident that the surgeon would do a great job and he did, I still prayed for everything to go great and it did."

Some would define this as "proof" that prayer works.

 

Originally Posted By Labuda

^^ And those with critical thinking skills would define this as proof that this surgeon really did know how to do his job well.

 

Originally Posted By oc_dean

I've come to a conclusion the only good 'prayers' helps ... is to make the person more in focus with themselves. Nothing more. In example, after example, after example - praying really does zilch! How about all the prayers to prevent the atrocities that have happened in every war in the world?

Praying is bogus - Waste of time.

But people will continue to do it - Just because it brings comfort to them.

 

Originally Posted By TomSawyer

"Sorry that I couldn't do more to stop your parents from beating you, kid, but I had to answer that football player's prayer to make a game winning touchdown instead. I'm sure you understand."