Originally Posted By DVC_dad Trippy the truth is simply that 500 bucks today isn't nearly as much to you as (whatevever the adjusted equivalent of) 500 bucks was in 1980. The sad truth is, WDW has gotten MORE expensive, and you get less for your money. Oh sure, I see the commericals on TV, "a family of 4 can stay for a weekend on $1500" yeah right. The truth is, it costs more, and you get less.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 when it comes to US vacations yes there are cheaper ones -- but I can tell you nice meals in Chicago / NY etc. will make your head spin in you think WDW restaurants are expensive. Entry to museums in the Chicago area now in the $25 range - and then they have individual exhibits that cost extra when you get in. Parking $20 - $25 - take in a play - get the home equity line of credit check out....etc..
Originally Posted By dshyates Staying at this place: <a href="http://www.cheeca.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cheeca.com/</a> is cheaper than a WDTC Package at the all stars for the same number of days as the family package. 3 nights accommodations in a deluxe 1-bedroom suite, or deluxe room with 2 queen beds. Daily breakfast and resort fee included Snorkeling trip for 4 guests 1/2 day at Camp Cheeca for the kids Milk and cookies on turn-down $1,140 for the Deluxe Room $1,560 for the Suite I will go here before I return to WDW I gaurentee it.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<The truth is, it costs more, and you get less. >> Now, that's a winning marketing campaign!
Originally Posted By bayrr326 It all really comes down to cost and what you are getting for that cost. WDW is supposed to be a premium experience and in some ways it still is. The problem is while the price keeps going up, the quality has gone down. I don't think any of us would complain as much about the price if the MK rides had been getting the same upgrades that DL has over the years and the upkeep of the park was the way it used to be it. The problem is mgmt instead of looking at ways to maximize the experience that just look at ways to maximize profits. Now there is nothing wrong with making money but when your whole selling point is providing a quality attraction you better provide it. Instead since the mid 90's all we have seen are cuts. The just keeep cutting back things until people complain or it hurts the image. Or they take something that used to be for free(Christmas at MK) and turn it into something you have to pay for except for the 2 busiest weeks of the year. I almost wish that one year they would do an experiment and offer the Halloween stuff and christmas stuff as part of everyday operations at MK(also advertising it too) and see if they make as much money or more than they do with the hard ticket events. Halloween and Christmas have turned into huge monemakers for DL, DLP and TDL why not at WDW. But we know mgmt. will never do that.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << The problem is mgmt instead of looking at ways to maximize the experience that just look at ways to maximize profits. >> If you studied the profit margins for Disney parks over the past years, you would find that the margins shrunk steadily from the mid 1990s up until about 2 years ago. Only in the past 2 years have profit margins expanded back to where they were over 10 years ago. So, from a purely financial perspective, management has not done a very good job at maximizing profits -- rather, they have watched profits erode to some extent as the overhead costs of running the parks expanded faster than the revenues being generated. Additionally, the parks aren't even profitable on an operating basis right now. Disney is relying almost exclusively on hotels and real estate transactions at WDW to keep the parks & resorts business afloat. If DVC and Celebration were to disappear tomorrow, the entire Disney parks business model would completely fall apart.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Or they take something that used to be for free(Christmas at MK) and turn it into something you have to pay for except for the 2 busiest weeks of the year.>> Is it really all about the money? I think it gives guests the chance to have an improved (not so danged crowded!) experience. You can be in there with the great unwashed masses for free, or you can pay a bit to have a much more pleasant experience. What is so unusual about that? You guys are always so quick to assign evil motives to everything Disney does. Frankly, it borders on paranoia if you ask me.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 < I don't think any of us would complain as much about the price if the MK rides had been getting the same upgrades that DL has over the years and the upkeep of the park was the way it used to be it.< I think some are having a selective memory about DL -- as they went thru about a 10 year period that IMHO was even worse than WDW in upkeep and maintenance. Now to their credit a few years before the 50th - they stepped up and returned DL to the level it should be at -- but it was not always that way, uninterrupted also. That does not excuse the current state - especially at MK and the Studios - just says that mgmt there needs to take a cue from the turnaround at DL and do the same.
Originally Posted By Labuda "<<p.s. I think he chose 87 since he is a dear friend of mine and knows I first went in that year. >> Guess what? You actually were the reason I picked that year instead of say 1985 or 1988. Really! " I believe that! And, yay for you and super yay for me! "I'm thinking of locating WDW 1987 materials and putting some up here or tidbits from them so people can see just how different things were in the amazing 80s!" Woo woo! Here's hoping I find that as I make further progress in this thread.
Originally Posted By mickeynina I agree some the magic has gone. I remember the days when we dressed to go to WDW -- no daisy dukes & bathing suit tops, with everything hanging out...this is suppose to be a family place. Remember the days when all the bathrooms had attendents & how clean they were..not any more. I loved the Disney of the past, but must admit I still go several times a year & have been well over 300 times since WDW opened in 1971...so needless to say the changes have only made my own expectations decrease over the years...sad isn't it. I will continue to go as I now have 4 grandchildren who are growing up Disney & we will continue to enjoy the happy times we have there & look back fondly on all of our family memories. It is still my favorite place to go & while alot of the cast members are not the full time, live, eat & sleep Mickey there are still some really caring people working there who will listen if there is a problem & handle it in the Disney Way.
Originally Posted By danyoung >Remember the days when all the bathrooms had attendents & how clean they were..< Well, while I admit that standards have slipped quite a bit recently, I don't ever remember a time when WDW bathrooms had their own attendants.
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub Maybe not the men's but it did seem the women's did. Disposable diapers can create a unique smell very quickly.Do you see men changing diapers (on babies) in the men's rooms very often? Maybe I do not want to have a response about what you have seen in men's bathrooms that would be unique...With all the political news perhaps property owners should consider re-installing the attendants.
Originally Posted By SteamboatPhillie Maybe it's a bit late to get into the discussion, but I would like to throw my two cents in. Someone mentioned a magic shop that used to be on Main Street. My family went to DL when Toontown first opened, and I got some liquid smoke from the store. I never got it to work right, and I can still kind of remember the weird smell. On a similar note, the shop in Toontown has a conveyor belt above the patrons. It ran when I went there years and years ago, but in the several times I've been there since '99, I don't think I've seen it moving once. My basic interpretation of how things have grown less magical is, as others have pointed out, that the pursuit of money has become the modus operandi of the people running the company. But part of the blame can be placed on the consumer at large. The Fastpass mentality has already been mentioned, how people don't have patience to simply wait in line or walk somewhere else to get a particular item. (I know this thread has focused more on WDW, but it does seem the DL stores all stock the same merchandise, and a lot of what has been said here are somewhat true about DL as well) The Wal-Marting of America isn't just how business is changing, but also how the consumer is accepting of these changes. Many people are perfectly fine with having an increasingly limited selection of products and services. The same bestsellers on the book racks, the same blockbusters playing at the multiplexes. Many people just don't want to be bothered with finding something new or original or out of the way. They just want something entertaining, and fast. (Honest question, has Wal-Mart ever sold something from the Criterion Collection?) Whatever the major problems of society are it's almost impossible to think they will be fixed anytime soon. But Disney is just a company, albeit a large and international one, and as such it could be a lot easier to get the ball rolling on changing things for the better and keeping them up. It should be little trouble for management on any level to start doing their job as best they could, implementing whatever changes they can given their authority. Naturally it would be best if the people at the top of the hill were to initiate it, but there's no reason a store manager or the director of a park couldn't, say, make sure their employees were dedicated and motivated, ensure cleanliness, customer satisfaction, service that goes above and beyond the call. Posters on this thread have already given examples of both good and bad incidents at the parks that were not results of company policy, but just how the employees on the most direct level chose to act. From CMs ignoring comments about dirty bathrooms to other CMs working on cleaning up vomit, a lot of what can make the difference between a pleasurable experience and a negative one doesn't rely on what the president or CEO of the entire company decides, but just on how the "9-5" CMs approach their job. I've worked customer service related jobs before, so I know how an employee interacts with the customer or maintains their workspace can affect the perception of the customer (or in the case of the parks, guest). That said, I definitely feel the management of Disney should be taking the approach of going out to the field more and rubbing elbows with the troops, so to speak. If the people on top aren't doing the right thing, any progress will be limited. And I feel compelled to include this link: <a href="http://www.theonion.com/content/news/disney_family_vacation_ruined_by" target="_blank">http://www.theonion.com/conten t/news/disney_family_vacation_ruined_by</a>
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>And Trippy I do agree that a WDW vacation is less expensive than a decent trip to NYC<< Roady also flies "chartered" as in Sun Country? Meaning rock bottom prices, but at least he is smart enough not to fly one of the worst airlines on Earth based out of his town.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>Well, while I admit that standards have slipped quite a bit recently, I don't ever remember a time when WDW bathrooms had their own attendants.<< There were never attandants stationed inside restrooms but if I am not mistaken, there used to be restrooms assigned to some Custodials in particular, and they used to check up on them regularly...like twice every hour or so... But now? You will be lucky if you can find 2 custodials "on stage" per land.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<My basic interpretation of how things have grown less magical is, as others have pointed out, that the pursuit of money has become the modus operandi of the people running the company. But part of the blame can be placed on the consumer at large. The Fastpass mentality has already been mentioned, how people don't have patience to simply wait in line or walk somewhere else to get a particular item. (I know this thread has focused more on WDW, but it does seem the DL stores all stock the same merchandise, and a lot of what has been said here are somewhat true about DL as well) The Wal-Marting of America isn't just how business is changing, but also how the consumer is accepting of these changes. Many people are perfectly fine with having an increasingly limited selection of products and services. The same bestsellers on the book racks, the same blockbusters playing at the multiplexes. Many people just don't want to be bothered with finding something new or original or out of the way. They just want something entertaining, and fast.>> While I agree with much of what you say, I can't help but think it's a case of corporate America dumbing down our society under the guise it is what we want without giving us a choice. From meals being removed from most airlines (not my carrier of choice, thankfully) to all the Federated regional department stores being weaved into the Macy's brand (which ain't nearly what it stood for 20 years ago) to so many unoriginal movies and sequels ... well, we aren't given a choice. I've often used the example of the media coverage given to pseudo celebs like Paris Hilton and Anna Nicole and the latest American Idol castoff. The media says they give it to us because it's what we want, but HOW DO THEY KNOW? They aren't giving us any choice. Kind of like Disney making every shop sell the same crap or every restaurant becoming a character buffet or every land at the MK being inundated with cartoon characters. There's no choice there. There's just decisions by people only looking at the bottom line ... and really only looking at how it effects them.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Roady also flies "chartered" as in Sun Country? Meaning rock bottom prices, but at least he is smart enough not to fly one of the worst airlines on Earth based out of his town.< you mean that airlines that stranded me in New Orleans one time when they went on strike ? I know which one - grrrrrrrr
Originally Posted By SteamboatPhillie <<While I agree with much of what you say, I can't help but think it's a case of corporate America dumbing down our society under the guise it is what we want without giving us a choice.>> I definitely feel the unfettered growth of mega-corporations is a major problem in society, but like I said, the consumer being accepting of how corporations operate is part of the problem. The mainstream media may overreport non-stories about celebrities, but as long as people think they have to accept what is offered to them, no change is going to come about. There are plenty of people that avoid gossip rags and fluff reporting, and so independent media outlets are able to come about and cater to them. The choice does exist. I'm not sure how this can be applied to the descent of WDW or any park, because people usually don't go to the parks on a regular basis the way they do with following the news. Some people on this board have mentioned going three hundred times, but that is far more excessive than the average person. Heck, my going to DL about once a year is more frequent than average. For the vast majority of people attending a park, this is at most a once-in-a-great-while experience, if not once-in-a-lifetime. Maybe they'll come back in several years, if the kids aren't too old for it. Because they don't go to WDW that often, they might overlook the smaller issues like a dirty bathroom in favor of trying to enjoy the experience as a whole. And if they haven't been to a park often enough, they might not remember that there was a time when the stores did not all sell the same merchandise, or when there used to be original entertainers in each land instead of character meet-and-greets. Not knowing how things used to be or pretending to not notice some of the negative things, they'll be less likely to care about seeing changes made. Especially since it will be quite a while before they come back. In other words, a dirty bathroom will only affect them once; once they go back home, who cares? So this definitely is a case where the company has to make the changes we want to see made. (And as an aside: Disney is lambasted for being one of the great examples of uber-corporations, and the word Disney (or Disneyfied, Disneyfication) itself is used to describe shallow corporate homogenization. I find it funny, yet refreshing, that even a Disney fansite will offer so much griping about the company's bottom-line mentality. I've been a Disney geek for years, but I'm also a strong social liberal, so I'm constantly torn between my love of the Disney films, parks, etc. and my hatred of how the corporate side operates like an actual business. Maybe I put too much into the idea of "Uncle Walt" being such a swell guy, but I'm always wondering if a lot of the things we see today would have happened 50 years ago. Anyway, it's nice to see I'm not the only one that can enjoy the works of the artists, animators and Imagineers without ignoring the "dark side" of the corporate office.)
