Originally Posted By BrooklynsMom I had trouble finding a shady area a DAK that had enough room for us (4 adults, and 3 babies in strollers) to stop under and still allow enough room for people to pass by. I agree that the vegetation blocks the breeze more than provides shade. And for such a big park, it always feels crowded to me!
Originally Posted By danyoung >I can see the humidity angle but there are so many more trees to seek shade. EPCOT is an ocean of asphalt, cement and concrete with so very little overhead protection.< You'd think with all of that vegetation there would be more shade, but nope. And Epcot has the big lagoon to cool things a bit. Plus the wind is a huge factor. You get a nice crossbreeze in Epcot, whereas in DAK you're right down there between walls of greenery, and not even a tiny breath of moving air.
Originally Posted By karlg Re: posts 134 and 135 by barboy: >> PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN is missing something it is slow ride without much to see at first, followed by a victim being dunked, a glimpse of a burning dungeon with a dog holding keys in its mouth, and then you are done.<< If you only had a second or two to look at them, then maybe you would have a point. In JTTCOTE, you get something like 2 seconds to enjoy the lava monster. In rides like Splash for comparison, you don’t have just the one drop as you zoom past one animatronic character. In Indiana Jones, you are constantly surrounded by show scenes. To me queue and the elevator are the best done parts of JTTCOTE in the way the set the stage for the attraction, the ride itself was a bit underwhelming. You know I have the same problem with Lincoln and the Hall of Presidents ever since I first went to them. I go to see the animatronic figures and instead I mostly get a slide presentation. I can see slides on TV at home, I want the 3-D performance. >> TEST TRACK is missing something, it is slow ride without much to see at first, followed by a bumpy ride over some bricks, a glimpse of a giant truck coming at you, and then zoom and you are done. << I would agree Test Track is missing something. They put too much into getting the vehicle to 60MPH and not enough into the rest of the attraction. Its saving grace is that there is not much else to do in terms of even a mild thrill ride at EPCOT. >> EXPEDITION EVEREST is missing something, it is slow ride without much to see at first, followed by a modest lift hill, a glimpse of a giant snow creature, and then zoom and you are done. << Yes, one of my first reactions to Everest was that it was similar to JTTCOTE in the way that you flash by one huge animatronic character. They should have had you going rolling slowly up to it or the like to build anticipation and to give you a chance to enjoy it for more than a second or two. >> You know, one can paint any attraction as half-baked and uninspiring depending on his mood. << Sure you can, but some attractions hold up much better than others. I also expect more out of a “Major†attraction than I do out of a small one. For example I think the redo of Tom Sawyers island to Pirates theme was very well done (and even many that were skeptical of the remake tend to agree), but I think they wasted a lot of money on Nemo and think it is a flawed ride concept. >>> “Sinbad I guess is a little better, but still a weak attraction." -a weak attraction? Really?? As far as all of the Disney attractions go Sindbad is an E ticket. <<< Look, Sinbad never had been able to draw much attendance, on my first visit to TDS is closed early and then they had to redo it. Mostly from what I could tell they change the song (I don’t understand Japanese so certainly this does not help). I think it was trying to be an E-ticket, but it only has a B-ticket type of draw. >> If that one is weak what would you call the "orange stinger" at DCA, "Chip N Dales Nuthouse Coaster" or the "Bouncing Jellyfish"? << You mean the parking lot and Six Flags quality attractions at DCA? >> You are just hard to please. << Yes, I’m expecting the quality of attractions that only Disney has be able to deliver. They don’t have to all be E-Tickets, but was I expect is attention to detail, some good build up, and very importantly don’t let the ride system dominate over the theming of the attraction (something I think Disney lost with JTTCOE, Test Track, and Mission to Space).
Originally Posted By karlg >> I had trouble finding a shady area a DAK that had enough room for us (4 adults, and 3 babies in strollers) to stop under and still allow enough room for people to pass by. I agree that the vegetation blocks the breeze more than provides shade. And for such a big park, it always feels crowded to me! << As other have pointed out, it is very poor design in how almost none of the vegetation provides any shade for people. I would have expected the Imagineers to have thought much more about this. More still, I would have expected them to fix it after a year or two of realizing it was a problem. As far as congestion, the designers all failed “designing a theme park 101.†The layout effectively forces everyone to retrace their steps back to the “hubâ€. And then the hub is filled in with the Tree of Life and surrounding vegetation (so that people have a hard time finding the entrance to “It’s Tough to be a Bugâ€) so you are forced to go in the small ring around it. So basically you have people going in and out of each “land†via the same bridge and then everyone going between lands getting crammed into a thin ring around the tree of life that you must circle up to 180†(rather than cutting through) to get to another land. Disneyland originally had no connections between lands and forced everyone to go back to the hub, but quickly they learned that this cause a lot of extra walking and congestion. They soon added paths between the lands everywhere except for between Fantasyland and Frontierland because of the mine train and they later added the path by Thunder Ranch after the mine train closes. What gets me is that this is famous in the history of Disneyland as one of the early “lesson’s learned†and yet apparently the AK Imagineers didn’t learn it.
Originally Posted By bayrr326 <<The heat in DAK is due to the walkways being surrounded by such thick vegetation, but not really much in the way of cover overhead. So you're out in the direct sunlight without a hint of breeze. VERY hot and humid during the dog days of summer!>> The same problem also occurs at Busch Gardens in Tampa. There may be a breeze as you walk into the park but once you are in all of the vegetation blocks the wind and traps the humidity. The funny thing is that Busch Gardens Williamsburg is the exact opposite. During the summertime it is often 5 degrees cooler in the park than outside of it.
Originally Posted By twirlnhurl I think the main reasons for Animal Kingdom feeling hotter then the other parks is the dense vegetation and the lack of indoor attractions. Even the ones that are indoors have mostly outdoor queues. About the congestion, I do think it isn't as bad now that Asia and Dinoland are connected, but I still feel like stuff is incredibly far apart. It feels like it takes forever to get to Everest from anywhere.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 It's late and I'll post a better explanation in the next few days, but Karl the design of DAK, which I believe is damn near perfect, wasn't supposed to be like the traditional MK hub and spoke model. It's a park of winding pathways with dicoveries all around you. You're almost supposed to get lost (not literally) in the environment. I think Joe Rohde and his team did an absolute stunning job in conceptualizing, designing and building DAK. It is an amazing place. I'm sorry you feel differently, but we all have opinions.
Originally Posted By tonyanton I agree Spirit...the only part at this point, now that the bridge by Everest was added, that is difficult is the one bridge to and from the camp area. I understand this area was tacked on at the end of the design process, but a transitional pathway into Africa would be great someday.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I think Joe Rohde and his team did an absolute stunning job in conceptualizing, designing and building DAK.>> Wow... Spirit and Trippy are in 100% agreement on something. The Animal Kingdom is a magnificent park. If you take the time to go on some of the smaller paths there are some great discoveries to be made. The paths near the river heading towards the Tree of Life provide fantastic views as well as some pretty unique animals. It also is wonderful to find a little solitude in the middle of a theme park. I doubt more than 5-10% of park visitors even realize those paths exist.
Originally Posted By karlg Re: #147 by Spirit of 74 >> . . . but Karl the design of DAK, which I believe is damn near perfect, wasn't supposed to be like the traditional MK hub and spoke model. << If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck then it probably is a duck. It will take a bit of magic to explain how it is not a hub and spoke design. I remember Imagineers saying how the Tree of Life was like the weenie of the castle and there was talk about mimicking the MK layout. With the bridge they are addressing, just like they did at at Disneyland back in the 1950's problem with the hub and spoke design, namely adding a “rim.†Why did they repeat the same mistake that as a part of theme park lore that Disney fixed? While I agree that AK is in many ways wonderfully well themed, they really screwed up on some key design aspects. Most notably is the lack of shade in spite of all the vegetation; this should have been address in it first year. Similarly they make you walk a long way into cul de sacs (dead ends) of a hub and spoke with no rim. To me the sweated the details and ignored some major design aspects.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I remember Imagineers saying how the Tree of Life was like the weenie of the castle and there was talk about mimicking the MK layout. >> The ToL is certainly the proverbial 'weenie' but the park still isn't classic hub-and-spoke. In the three other parks, you see the weenie immediately. Not at DAK ... you have to take small paths through dense foliage before you open to the vista. And then, some people see a dead end with only two choices (left toward Camp Mickey-Minnie and Africa or right toward DinoLand and Asia) ... but there is a third option ... and that's to travel the paths around the tree and take in the animal exhibits as well as the lush gardens. <<With the bridge they are addressing, just like they did at at Disneyland back in the 1950's problem with the hub and spoke design, namely adding a “rim.†Why did they repeat the same mistake that as a part of theme park lore that Disney fixed? >> I'm not sure which bridge you're referring to. I guess it's the new one in the back of Asia. It didn't exist before because there wasn't anything in that area and then it was a construction zone. The bridge didn't make sense until Everest was opening. <<While I agree that AK is in many ways wonderfully well themed, they really screwed up on some key design aspects. Most notably is the lack of shade in spite of all the vegetation; this should have been address in it first year.>> I agree, but only to a point. The park is designed with mostly outdoor experiences. There's plenty of shade, but it's not ever going to be enough in the summer. It's much worse at the MK where they have removed all shade from Town Square, the Hub and, recently, Fantasyland by removing mature shade trees and replacing them with saplings and shrubs. To me, it's just as miserable at the MK in July ... BUT there are more attractions that are indoors, which makes it seem better. <<Similarly they make you walk a long way into cul de sacs (dead ends) of a hub and spoke with no rim. To me the sweated the details and ignored some major design aspects. >> No design is perfect, but when I look at the haphazard design of parks like the Studios and DCA, I realize what a marvel DAK truly is. (shade issues aside) And the growing isn't done yet. I would expect major expansion on the left side of the park and, if so, another connection via Africa/Harambe. There are a lot of things I can find fault with at WDW, especially at the MK, but I'm really hard-pressed to find bigtime legit complaints at DAK.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 Maybe all of the thrill rides should be stuck side by side in one area. That way people who want to wander the little side paths, smell the roses sort of thing, can do so without getting trampled by the ones who only want to do the thrill rides. Can't please everybody. I have a pic of my son, 1990 kneeling infront of the Mickey Topiary, (now Partners) in front of the Castle. Trees galore! Recently saw a current pic of the Partners in front of the Castle, wow what a difference. No trees.
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan Personally, I think that Journey to the Center of the Earth is among the best Disney attractions. I was always in awe and looking around. The show scenes are elaborate and immersive, something I value highly in a Disney attraction. Same goes for 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and Sindbad's Storybook Voyage. All are true E-ticket attractions in my opinion, and in my top 10 list of Disney attractions (with Journey to the Center of the Earth being my favorite attraction overall). People will probably call me biased, but I've never felt any problems with the attraction myself. I had read all about it before riding it; it's interesting that while many people call it the best Disney attraction, others call it slightly disappointing. Because the wide range of opinions, I didn't know what to expect. Needless to say, my opinions sided with the people who said it was the best Disney attraction .
Originally Posted By wc DVC Dad. You have a strong point there. Though the original post has a point too. I've never been to WDW so I'll comment on Disneyland. Particularly Main Street. They are all basically character shops now. That wasn't the way it was when I was a kid. When I first visited, most of the shops on Main Street were separately owned businesses. Main Street was a idealized Main Street, though with real "Main Street" businesses. In 1955 for example, the big store that now houses the Disney Showcase, was a Wurlitzer music store. There were several other businesses in that space over the years. I do agree with your posting about "station in life." I have a 13 year old daughter and I took her to Disneyland last year. It was so much fun re-experiencing Disneyland through her eyes. I have been there many times and I grew jaded over the years as I got older. I could see the reality behind the facade. Plus as I read the entertainment sections of the news I just shake my head and say "Walt wouldn't have done that." I never knew him but several relatives knew Walt & Lillian very well and I know all their stories by heart. I didn't mention earlier that my daughter has Autism. As such, I am lucky in that she will never cease to see the magic at Disneyland. Thus I will from now on have the pleasure of re-living it as a child through her eyes, everytime I visit.
Originally Posted By BeautysBeast SPirit since u said u dont post on other disney sites,thought youd be outraged to find someone named WDW 74 posted this same topix on mice age..Or was it just you and u u arnt really truthfull when u post on here??
Originally Posted By danyoung Nope, it's definitely him. When did he say that this is the only site he posts on?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^Thanks for answering my fan mail, Danny. The first martini is on me if we can ever be at WDW at the same time (something I naturally try very hard to avoid!). Yes. I do post on another site from time to time. Sometimes I post the same stuff, if I'm starting a thread ... and sometimes I just join in a conversation.
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct << I think Joe Rohde and his team did an absolute stunning job in conceptualizing, designing and building DAK. >> AK is the entire reason I started buying an Annual Pass ... and I live in CT The place is a work of art - it's that simple.
Originally Posted By Labuda Having just read the first page of this so far, let me say this... WOW. Such wonderful, well-thought out posts. Count me as one who remembers and longs for the old days since she first visited in 1987, the year that Spirit mentioned in post 1. p.s. I think he chose 87 since he is a dear friend of mine and knows I first went in that year.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<p.s. I think he chose 87 since he is a dear friend of mine and knows I first went in that year. >> Guess what? You actually were the reason I picked that year instead of say 1985 or 1988. Really! And the thread has been a good one, although it kind of went off in some other directions ... I'm thinking of locating WDW 1987 materials and putting some up here or tidbits from them so people can see just how different things were in the amazing 80s!
