Originally Posted By ssWEDguy Which one you saw first -- makes a difference If you saw Cinderellabration in WDW first, you'll love the show. It's quite engaging, and the choreography and costuming is first rate. If you saw it in Tokyo Disneyland first, you probably will be disappointed. Maybe even go off to City Hall to complain. If you saw Fantasmic at Studios first, you'll find the show quite engaging, and the dragon and lagoon fire awesome. (you'll probably still wish you hadn't had to wait in line so long) Later when you see the original in Disneyland you'll wonder if all those extra effects were part of the one in Florida or not. And the Mark Twain and Columbia in full dress! Whoosh! But then you probably will still wish you hadn't had to wait around the lagoon so long before the show just to stake out a spot. If you saw Orlando's Magic Kingdom first, you'll love it, especially the castle. When you visit DL someday, you'll probably feel closed in (especially on an extra-busy day), and think that maybe the rest of the castle is backstage being refurbished for your future enjoyment. If you saw DL first, you'll love the original castle, and the intimacy of the place. Walt walked here. There's a light in the firehouse window. When you go to WDW, you'll feel like it's a knockoff copy of the original (except for the castle). The greater spaces may make you wish for the comfort of home. I feel so sorry for people who've only visited Disney parks in their lives. Later, when they go to just about ANY other theme park, they're going to be disappointed. Disney sets the bar so high in so many ways in all their parks, anywhere else just comes up short. I know when ValleyFair opened up in Minneapolis I went there on one of it's earliest opening days. What a comedown. Even though I thought I'd toned down my expectations, it wasn't enough. (But to be fair, in and of itself and in a quite seasonal environment it's very nice) Try visiting Camp Snoopy inside the Mall of America someday after knowing Disney. Wow. What a bizarre, other-worldly feeling. What the berm and landscaping do for you in Disney parks (separation from the outside world) the steel beams and glass-faceted ceiling there reverses in total. Constant reminders that "Hey -- you're inside a big building." So for the people that have never seen the show version or the place that you've seen -- give them a break. What they're seeing today is just the tops as far as they're concerned. Someday when they've eventually seen what you've seen, (though Tokyo Disney may remain on most people's wish forever) they will realize on their own.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>What they're seeing today is just the tops as far as they're concerned<< Agreed, but it really is unnerving that the other Disney parks can offer better versions of the stuff they do at WDW and yet, they have the audacity to charge the highest 1-day ticket price of them all. What they don't know, can't hurt them, but my aim is to educate people that Disney (and WDW in particular) *can* do much better, and since I am savy about the other parks..I won't stand for an inferior product in the "so called" most visited Disney park on Earth at this point in time. Shame on WDW for charging the most and offering the less for a single day of fun. >>If you saw (Cinderellabration) in Tokyo Disneyland first, you probably will be disappointed. Maybe even go off to City Hall to complain.<< I don't bother going to City Hall anymore. The CMs there put no interest in what people have to say and it shows in the way their have been trained to defend the company regardless... A total waste of time. But it sure is a great spot to vent off your frustrations.. but it'd be worthwhile if they actually cared and followed up on guests' complaints.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Agreed, but it really is unnerving that the other Disney parks can offer better versions of the stuff they do at WDW and yet, they have the audacity to charge the highest 1-day ticket price of them all.>> That is not a terribly valid comparison when the vast majority of WDW admissions come from multi-day passes. Also, you have to expect that Disney is going to charge what the market will bear. Disneyland is surrounded by a bunch of parks that you can visit for very little. WDW competes with Universal and Sea World, both of which charge about the same as Disney. Disney is not charging the most for WDW's Magic Kingdom because they claim it's the best. They are charging the most because that’s what people will pay in Orlando.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN ..and of course, they will because as ssWEDguy said in the first post... don't don't know any better. But to put things in perspective in regards to your comment about "the vast majority of WDW admissions come from multi-day passes", the fact remains that those multi-day passports are no deal at all. Reason why even frequent out of town guests are purchasing the AP or PAP instead, and *that's* where the real value on a WDW media ticket is. Not the 3-?? multiday passports.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<my aim is to educate people that Disney (and WDW in particular) *can* do much better>> While this may be your aim, sometimes your posts come off as snotty and condescending, and people who don't know you take it the wrong way.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN Well that's their (and your) problem I guess.. But no one ever said it was easy to be TDLFAN. In fact, it's one of my hardest characters to play due to the many dimensions it carries.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Naw, I don't have a problem with it... I am actually kinda curious to seeing what the response to what you write will be... you are nothing if not predictable.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN I must be 'something' or else, most of you would not make a big deal out of me.
Originally Posted By demderedoseguys ^^ TDLFAN. The first thing that I think when I see a thread started by you is, "Oh, good, I hope there's pictures". I don't mind your criticisms of Disney, since they are based on your intimate knowledge of the place and while I am not as harsh as you, I concur with many of your thoughts.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Well, my sisters and I have never felt that TDLFAN came across as being snotty or condescending. However, there are a few OTHERS who come across that way. But, for the most part, we're much to proper to point them out by name. ORWEN: I always appreciate the honesty and frank opinions TDLFAN offers, myself. He's not the type to be an ostrich with his head in the sand--like some old toads are. We would never want him to become an apologist for Disney's obvious faults.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<sometimes your posts come off as snotty and condescending, and people who don't know you take it the wrong way>> With apologies to The Witches, I agree with you, trekkeruss. TDLFAN does sometimes come across as harsh, judgemental, even snotty and condescending... for people who don't know him. I don't want to sound all "I'm special" here, but... I DO know him, and pretty well. When you know him, you sometimes read his posts and cringe and think, "Yikes! That's going to come off wrong!" But you realize that the "wrongness" of it is due to his true love of Disney Parks that he gained from the perspective of a child on family trips to DisneyWorld, from his experience as a CM, and from his unique (and enviable) position of being someone who visits ALL the Parks frequently and can compare Disney standards worldwide. It's a shame that not everyone can personally know the man behind TDLFAN. That acquaintanceship would allow people to get past the unfortunately-phrased posts that reflect his sincere desire that each Park be the best it can be. ssWEDguy, you bring up a fascinating point. So WDW's Cinderellabration is (without a doubt) "less" than TDL's is. Does that make it a bad show for WDW guests? or should we be happy that we at least got this version stateside for thousands of happy tourists (who know nothing of the TDL version) to enjoy? I grew up all my life wanting to visit Disneyland. It wasn't until I was in college that I got a chance to visit -- but it was the Magic Kingdom in WDW that I got to go to, instead of the original Disneyland. It felt to me like an imitation. But that's because I'm old enough that the original one was the only one I knew when I was dying to get there. Who's to say that The Magic Kingdom isn't the "right" one for others who've experienced that one first? And the Fantasmics!... I love the original, but the whole camping out on a make-shift staging area thing...
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA Interesting thread. And having grown up with Disneyland, I agree. We visited Cedar Point this past summer, which touts itself as the 'Best Amusement Park on the Planet.' Okay... If that's the case, I need not visit other amusement parks around the world, thank you very much. It just didn't impress me at all.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> I don't bother going to City Hall anymore. << I'm a "feedback" person myself. I try to give people information back so that they know their work is noticed enough that someone went out of their way to tell them. Positive feedback of course, but sometimes critical. When I give critical feedback I do it because "I like this place so darn much it makes me uncomfortable to have to point out a negative. I wish it were better." It took me years to notice that quite often when giving critical feedback, that the person I was talking to "wasn't going to carry this comment much further up the chain." You just know it. They're busy, and they're too low on the chain themselves. So I do written feedback more often. I can only hope that a written document might have a better chance of being forwarded and something done about, if I write it well. If nothing else, my original comments can't be misinterpreted, and there's a better chance that I might actually even get a response. At the very least I can re-read my own note at a later date and still feel better for having written it. ------------- I didn't discover Mark Twain until I got into my 40's. Then I loved his work so much, I read EVERYTHING he wrote. The man was a master of humor, a wry wit, and an incredible command of the language. His choice of words and his sentence construction is a delight. And then one day I noticed and pointed out to my wife that something that Mark Twain was saying in such a clever and humorous way was really pretty strong social commentary. In disguise. He was doing it in such a way that he didn't come across as a curmudgeon. People were actually paying him cash money to listen to what he had to say about a social problem -- in a humorous way. Whereas if he were a politician making a dry speech on the very same subject, people's eye's would soon glaze over and they quit hearing. Wow. I've noticed that most good standup comics can do the same thing even today. How I really envy that ability. It's really hard to do on purpose. It must be a gift.
Originally Posted By BlazesOfFire <<Someday when they've eventually seen what you've seen, (though Tokyo Disney may remain on most people's wish forever) they will realize on their own.>> Not everyone has the same opinion. Even if they visit these other parks, it does not mean they will reach the same opinion as you. Can't we all just agree to disagree without making others feel bad about actually enjoying Disney World best of all as it is now and in the past?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <It's a shame that not everyone can personally know the man behind TDLFAN. That acquaintanceship would allow people to get past the unfortunately-phrased posts that reflect his sincere desire that each Park be the best it can be< I'm sure you are right, however many of us who only get to the parks 1 - 2 trips per year, probably will never meet up. But, if one stays around these boards long enough, they would also get to know posters and what their intentions are in most posts. I have never met TDLFAN, but in over 2 years here ( only shows as 1 since I had to re-sign up once) - I know that his passion for WDW ( and DL - TDL and DLP ) is real and he would like nothing better but to see WDW live up to it's lofty ideals and goals. Surely there can't be an issue with that? There are two problems, 1 - some people who get irked don't want to hear anything negative (in my best Jack Nicholson, " you can't handle the truth") - so they get upset & 2/ others don't stick around long enough to 'get to know' others here and retort with flames to people they don't know...although that has gotten much better as of late. So for me, I look for the truth behind postings more than I used to...and usually it is there, regardless of how it is phrased. And let's face it, the man is a wizard with a digital camera also....
Originally Posted By trailsend OK, TDLFAN, since you are, as you tell us so often, *really something*, here is what I would like to hear. You do owe Inspector 57. He presented the more refined side of you. You don't present that side at all. Now, if you DID, and having the KNOWLEDGE you have, and doing so WITHOUT the *cutesy*, *I know it all*, *you're stupid because you haven't traveled around the world*, *me me me, I I I* STUFF you throw out, it would be a pleasure to hear you actually give some decent information. Your points would be well taken and LISTENED to. But YOU get in the way of your own postings. Your posts should not be about YOU; let them be about the knowledge you have, the years you've observed all of WDW. A true art form would be to present what you know in a way that others (not the ones who know you so well) could receive it and think about it and come to their own conclusions from your objective knowledge. Yep, objective is the key word. You are not objective, but you could TRY to be. Somewhat like: "Here is the way it was back in _____", then go on to say, "This is what is being presented now." ºOº
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 Hey, wait a second, trailsend. You must have been doing some selective reading. While I agree that he's written his share of ill-advised posts, it's simply incorrect to say that he's never objective or fair. Or to say that he typically presents his information or opinions with an air of superiority. One of the reasons I appreciated his posting even before I knew him is that he does present the good along with the bad. Another reason I've always enjoyed his posting is for his personal perspective, which includes a sometimes self-deprecating sense of humor. I personally don't think it's that hard to get to the valuable insights and information in his posts.
Originally Posted By Labuda BUmping this, as I think some folks who haven't yet posted in this thread could benefit from reading post #11.
