Originally Posted By WilliamK99 Over the last 3 years I have been here, there has been alot of negativity concerning the business choices Disney makes. Everything from Pooh Playground to Mission Space, to the "white trash" clientle that frequents the park has been criticized. My question is, why do the chief complainers continually support the company? Disney, like any other business, wants to make money. The way to initiate changes is to stop giving them your money. If enough people do this, eventaully Disney will make changes to attract you back. I just do not see the point in complaining online while continuing to visit the parks and give Disney your money. Put your money where your mouth is and boycott Disney, and allow those that do enjoy the parks, to enjoy them.
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Originally Posted By FerretAfros I think the reason that people complain is that they know that Disney can do, and has done, better. It is the love for the company and all of its parts that can fuel the hate of the short-sighted choices that have been made. It isn't that people don't like the parks, but rather they like them so much that they really can't stand to see what is being done to them.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN ..and YOU^^^^ have been to TDS recently, so you may understand the reasons for my frustrations.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 You come across as a jealous frump, since it burns you that some of us do get to go to the parks way too often and still do not allow ourselves to be Pollyannas.<< Love how you throw in some insults when I did nothing of the sorts to you. Oh well, I am not jealous at all, I just find it odd people waste their energy, time, money , on things that irritates them.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom WilliamK99, I know you mean well and your correct there have been quite a few nasty posts not only negative about certain rides/ attractions in the parks. But also there has been some posts that have had a personal attack slant to them. Although these posts may be tolerated on other threads on LP. The tone of these posts are not appropriate for the Disney World General Board. Now I'm going to attempt to partially answer your question. First off, Walt stood up for quality. He wanted to present a first class theme park to the world. He did that. What most posters here are trying to explain is that there are not only many rides/ attractions that exist today in the parks that are definately not up to Walt's "standards". Also the business model rampant today at the Disney Company is so out of step with the presidence that Walt set. It just seems illogical sometimes why Disney management makes these decisions. Examples, condos condos condos? The Disney Institute? Wide World of Sports? Opening DAK with half a park? Closing half of MGM? No parade at EPCOT? Firing half of the preformers? To only hire a few back? Cutting hours on ALL bus drivers? Firing the cartoonists at MGM? Spending 100Million on Mission Space when Test Track gets more riders? Closed pavallions at EPCOT? Not to mention debris all over the property from hurricanes years past. The number one complaint of quests at MK is the lack of transportation within the park after Disney shuts down the Skyway. The poliferation of sloppy, half baked, themed play areas on prime real estate within the parks. WDW is a gem. Many of us are disgruntled to see that money is being sucked out of WDW and spent on other "subsideries" within the Disney Company.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 W99 -- I will echo what KT has said so eloquently -- so let me ask you this question...do you never question choices or moves by anyone starting from the government to family to other companies other than Disney ? If so than you can state what you have without any reservations--if not-- than why is Disney exempt ? Disney stands for quality, and the only way to let anyone know that one doesn't feel they are living up to it on all ends is to voice their opinion. No one is talking about a boycott here, we are talking about items they can and should do better to maintain their status....boycotting helps no one and is a poor choice from some well meaning people in the 60's-- it didn't work then and doesn't work today. If we cannot complain on line ( which I thought the reason for chat rooms was voicing ones' opinion -- not only positive but also neutral and negative ) - where ? Tell me what the reason for these chat rooms is then ? Is it only to laud praise and find out how to phone in a priority seating ? If so then I am in the wrong place as are many others. I have a lot invested in Disney -- from AP,s to DVC units, to stock holdings for myself and children...however that is not going to make me tell them what great things they are doing when they might not be in some cases. As a country we did that for GM and Ford for decades when they turned out less than quality merchandise-- how did that false praise work out today ? I don't want to see that happen to Disney-- and yes I do send letters to guest services and the Disney company with my opinons also. So I am not sure what your intent was with this post-- but redefining what a chat room is or isn't shouldn't be part of it....unless it was your chat room. When the owners of LP tell us to stop writing anything negative about Disney, I will abide by their wishes and leave... I probably post 10 times the positive than negative posts...and have almost 10,000 posts, but if you expect me to type in that the Pooh Playground was an outstanding choice to place in Fantasyland, and as a replacement for an e-ticket, and that they could not have done better, and that another playground was not needed in a park with 3 already ( including an entire land) - then I cannot subscribe to that train of thought.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I've got no problem with condos, the Disney Institute attempt, Wide World of Sports (a hugely popular draw all year long), or DAK for that matter. WDW has grown becuase the company tooks risks (Epcot) and those were all risks. Most of which, by the way, that have gone on to do well. Now cutbacks are another matter (bus hours, performers, animators, closed attractions) and I agree that those are all disappointing. Cause for hanging myself? No. Transportation withing the park is the number one complaint at the MK? Why is that not an issue at Epcot, Animal Kingdom or MGM? The fact of the matter is that the skyride was a unique attraction but few people relied on it for "transportation". Most people could walk across the park in the time it took to wait and ride Skyway. I think it is easy to complain about Disney because it is so large and cannot be everything to everybody.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Scores of shareholders, Roy Disney and Walt's daughter would beg to differ. A lot of people are not happy with the direction the Disney Company has been going in for the past ten years. Not to mention that their stock still has not recovered.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 don't even get me started on stock price -- lower today than 7 years ago by a margin of 42.00 to 30.00 today -- that's a 29% loss over a lot of years -- but maybe we should praise them for that also I guess. I purchased a large block for my kids at 37.00 -- I haven't lost faith and I do put my money where my mouth is -- maybe more than those who choose to criticize us who may have a negative thought now and then ?
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I don't think there has been any more complaining than normal. I do think some posters take their criticism too seriously, for lack of a better word. Those that are on the lookout for problems, and see themselves as watchdogs... that's a bit odd, IMO. But that's merely my feelings; everyone expresses they fanaticism in a different way.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 we all have different hot buttons that set us off is one way to put it also.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 But also there has been some posts that have had a personal attack slant to them. Although these posts may be tolerated on other threads on LP. The tone of these posts are not appropriate for the Disney World General Board.<< Please name one of my posts that has been a personal attack on someone. Actually there was a personal attack on me in this thread that was admined. You are all missing the point, the point is, when you spend your money at Disney and support them even though you dislike the direction they are headed. They will continue to head towards that direction. Disney will never change as long as they are making money going the "cheap route".
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 do you never question choices or moves by anyone starting from the government to family to other companies other than Disney ? If so than you can state what you have without any reservations--if not-- than why is Disney exempt ? Disney stands for quality, and the only way to let anyone know that one doesn't feel they are living up to it on all ends is to voice their opinion. << I have had bad experiences with other companies. For one, I went to a Six Flags park awhile ago. It was horrible, bad maintenance, and it was a generally bad experience. Now, instead of going back, I have decided Six Flags does not deserve my business. I have made the decision that I am not happy with the direction they are headed, and will not go back until they change. If enough people do that, they will either a)change or b) go out of business That is how businesses work...... if what they are doing does not make a profit, they will change the way they do business.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 A a member of senior management at a major international firm, I can also tell you that public opinion ( and analyst opinions) - are very important. Stock prices can increase at companies losing money in certain areas, and decrease at those who are very profitable...so I am very familiar in the infrastructure of how major business decisions are arrived at. So a business lesson I think I can skip...but let me pose this one to you...if everytime a company went in a direction we did not like- we withheld monetary income from them...- do you really think that this wouldmake them a stronger and better company--- or make them more liable to be taken over by foregin investment ? How many former US companies are now no longer US owned and operated ? How many jobs have been lost in this country because instead of people complaining, they just went along until they were forced to change products because the competition was so much better, and then another company went under ? Disney is an S&P company and look around, US industry is under siege... you want to boycott and hinder them more, rather than try and work through channels to get things improved. Less income = less investment back into the core business, less R&D and creativity. My suggestion to you is that what you suggest is in the long run more detrimental than the negative comments that work there way back to management. Yes, if after trying all else a company fails to respond and there are better alternatives, taking them is probably prudent. As for me, I am afraid of the opportunities my children will be afforded in the workplace and I choose not to try and purposely hinder that any further.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<Please name one of my posts that has been a personal attack on someone. Actually there was a personal attack on me in this thread that was admined. >> WilliamK99 I know very well you have not made any personal attacks here. I was not talking about you at all. I really don't see Disney going the "cheap route" in everything they do. Perhaps this is the most frustrating thing of all to us Disney fans. Disney spared no expense with DAK. Its an incredible park. Granted its half a park. But what is there is incredible. Now look at MGM, half of the attractions are closed now. It just makes no sense. EPCOT has one pavallion conpletely closed down. ( whats the story there? ). Maybe those of us just see Disney as being inconsistent. Somethings they excel in. Other things seem to be half baked. Again there is no reason why anyone here has to do personal attacks at any other poster. WilliamK99 I know you have been wonderful on here, but again there have been a rare few individuals who have been making personal attacks.
Originally Posted By alexbook >>I don't think there has been any more complaining than normal. I do think some posters take their criticism too seriously, for lack of a better word. Those that are on the lookout for problems, and see themselves as watchdogs... that's a bit odd, IMO. But that's merely my feelings; everyone expresses they fanaticism in a different way.<< It does seem like some people are only looking for the negative. There's a difference between expressing disappointment or criticism and outright bashing. I find the criticism in most of the threads on LP to be interesting, informative, and thought-provoking. Sometimes, though, you read posts that make you wonder why the poster even bothers to go to a Disney park if everything is so awful. If I'm reading WilliamK99 correctly, it's those posts that he's questioning, and I'm right there with him.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORGOCH: Ain't ya never heard how the squeaky wheel gits the oil? It pays ta complain 'bout things that needs complainin' 'bout--like the way some a them former goomers runnin' the comp'ny went 'n took so long ta fix things up at Dizzyland--leavin' the castle go without paint fer so many years. If'n a dull castle's what yer inta, then I guess yer never gonna' know why it helps ta complain 'bout the thing till somebody goes ahead 'n PAINTS it. ORDDU: The fact that some of the recent replacements to the Disney Company have been working hard to turn things around shows that they're in agreement with the 'complainers' because they, too, realize a need for a return to quality.
Originally Posted By Kimrue I agree with the original poster, so I will give the same advice I've taken myself. I don't really frequent laughing place anymore. I find it frusterating when I click here to see if anyone has any "news" or fun facts before I go on an upcoming trip and all I read is how WDW is crap compared to...or just crap in general, new rides are crap, American people are crap and the excuse that oh, we bash Disney because we love it....I'm not buying that one, sorry. This is my view...I go to WDW, I have an awesome vacation with literally NO complaints I have a great time, I sincerely LOVE DISNEY...I don't care about all of the "business" blah blah blah that revolves around Disney...I just booked an awesome vacation and I can't wait to see the faces of my kids light up when they find out. I actually feel sorry for those who have made a science experiment out of going to WDW by literally disecting every last aspect of the parks, they've ruined it for themselves, obviously no longer enjoying it. Perhaps I'm wrong, afterall it does seem a popular LP past time to completely 'BASH' wdw in the name of "love" of the park...and find it enjoyable to do so.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Of course there's a difference between complaining just for the sake of complaining--which some people do--and between complaining because you love something so much that you hate to see it destroyed by new management types who haven't a care about how to preserve quality. I'm sure ANYBODY will be inspired to complain about something they care about--when they see that it's being needlessly ruined by some sort of careless bully. ORWEN: For instance--those fiendish metal contraptions you all call cars. If you bought it yourself and cared for it, you'd complain if a neighbor came by and threw eggs at it. And you wouldn't keep silent about it and just focus on the things about the car that were still untouched by the eggs. You'd want a perfect car--if possible. ORDDU: In the minds of many Disney fans, certain management types from the past have as much as thrown eggs at the Disney company in general--serving up mediocre movies and neglecting the theme parks for so long that it's no wonder there are ducklings complaining about it. My sisters and I applaud those who aren't going to stand for mediocre or worse. Being an ostrich with his head in the sand is no way to fight for improvement. ORWEN: And complaining about complainers shows that some ducklings just don't understand how those who care so much for quality should be their REAL heros. We say it's time to thank some of these so-called complainers because they are the one's who are helping to bring about changes for the better.
