Originally Posted By Mr X Either he said it or you did. I remember it clearly. I'll go back and find the post if I have to, don't you tell me that what I write is "nonsense".
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan <<He once wrote that his opinion about the new parks was DCA in first place, WDSP in second, and DisneySea last. Hey, everyone has a right to their opinion. But seriously, how many people have you heard that think Walt Disney Studios Paris is BETTER than DisneySea?>> No one on God's green Earth would pick DCA or WDSP over TDS unless they really had irrational issues with the park. They must REALLY hate DisneySea if they rank both DCA and WDSP above it. They must be in the 0.01% who feel this way about TDS Either way, I don't really care for their opinions. I'm tired of how they hate TDS just for the sake of hating it; DCA and WDSP have far more problems than TDS and they never acknowledge them. I'm sure most people don't even notice any problems with TDS in the first place. That article was a pain for me to read; all the statements were so biased against DisneySea that I had difficulty accepting it. They keep picking at every little fault with TDS, yet fail to see the painfully obvious problems in both DCA and WDSP. That alone is fact that their dislike of TDS is completely nonsensical. How anyone can instantly praise half-day parks such as DCA and WDSP (especially when everyone else is well aware of their glaring problems) and criticize a stunningly detailed park such as TDS (particularly with such unreasonable gripes) is beyond me.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Either he said it or you did. I remember it clearly. I'll go back and find the post if I have to, don't you tell me that what I write is "nonsense".>> It is nonsense. Absolute nonsense. Also trying to suggest that either of us hold "negative" views of Japan or Japanese people is ridiculous. Neither of us hold any such thoughts. We spend a lot of time in the country and it is singularly one of the most breathtakingly beautiful I have ever seen. The people certainly aren't the most friendly when it comes to Westerners but I have no complaints on that front.
Originally Posted By Mr X I'm so sure I'm right, Lee, that I'll bet you ten thousand yen that Lindsay said that (that particular order, 1, 2, and 3). Deal?
Originally Posted By leemac <<They must REALLY hate DisneySea if they rank both DCA and WDSP above it. >> Where does it say the word "hate"? The article discusses the closed narratives. The writer even states that the architecture is stunning but that the stories themselves left him feeling "cold".
Originally Posted By Mr X >>>Also trying to suggest that either of us hold "negative" views of Japan or Japanese people is ridiculous. Neither of us hold any such thoughts. We spend a lot of time in the country and it is singularly one of the most breathtakingly beautiful I have ever seen. The people certainly aren't the most friendly when it comes to Westerners but I have no complaints on that front.<<< Now THAT'S nonsense. Wanna bet ANOTHER ten thousand yen that I can find at least 10 posts from you expressing distain for what you consider to be rude Japanese behavior? Heck, make it 20 posts. I like a challange.
Originally Posted By leemac <<They keep picking at every little fault with TDS, yet fail to see the painfully obvious problems in both DCA and WDSP. >> That wasn't the point of the article. It wasn't a comparison piece. It was an op-ed about a park that is flawed in the writer's mind. Considering you would prefer to see the fake reality of TDS to the real splendor of Venice demonstrates how bias you are for the merits of TDS. That is your choice. personally I have never met anyone that would choose the old world reality of those European cities to a five year-old artificial environment. That is nonsensical. But then all of your posts about the park are.
Originally Posted By leemac <<expressing distain for what you consider to be rude Japanese behavior?>> There is a big difference between highlighting some quirks in society and behaviour and tarring an entire country with the same big brush. Thankfully my education and upbringing allows me to make that distinction in my mind.
Originally Posted By Mr X Come on Lee, do we have a bet. Calling it nonsense three times doesn't make me any less right. And I can prove it. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is? Nice personal attack on TDR_Fan, by the way. You sure do show your true colors when people dare to attack your (er, I mean Lindsays?) published opinion piece.
Originally Posted By Mr X Apparently your education and upbringing haven't prevented you from being a vindictive crybaby.
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan <<Considering you would prefer to see the fake reality of TDS to the real splendor of Venice demonstrates how bias you are for the merits of TDS. That is your choice. personally I have never met anyone that would choose the old world reality of those European cities to a five year-old artificial environment. That is nonsensical. But then all of your posts about the park are.>> And like you aren't biased as well? My preference of a more visually pleasing Mediterranean Habor over the real Italy is no different than somebody saying they prefer going to the pavillions in Epcot over the real thing or in the case of Animal Kingdom, Africa or Asia. I prefer DisneySea's version of Italy because there is an air of uniqueness and charm not found in the real place (and believe me, I've been there). I can safely say that for me, the atmosphere of Mediterranean Harbor is far more romantic and captivating than the real Italy.
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan Someone sure thinks highly of themselves. Lee, I don't think that your opinions are any more valid than mine or Mr X's. Stop acting like you know everything because apparently, you don't . Can't you just accept that someone else is right for once? Not everything you post is instantly fact anyways, especially when you don't have proof unlike me or Mr X.
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan I've noticed that Lee always backs off when he knows he's been cornered or has been proven wrong. He's done that to me many times in the past; most of the time the argument is regarding TDS.
Originally Posted By The Goddess Mara I don't know Lindsay, and I think that Laughing Place magazine is a design catastrophe (the worst of contemporary British "fad" design with type too small to read that's all over the place on the page with enormous photographs of tiny details), however he's obviously an intelligent and thoughtful person. What no one has mentioned in this thread (unless I've missed it) is this sentence at the end of his piece, "... an attraction such as Aquatopia (the only attraction not obviously attached to a fixed narrative) would be my only must-do on each visit." Am I the only person who read that and thought, "This indicates that there's something WAY WAY off in this man's ability to judge theme park attrations"? Aquatopia? This is the least-attended ride in the entire park next to Sindbad! And it's crap ... there's zero illusion that the water is deep, and unless you're riding the "wet course" in the summer, you know that you're going to remain dry. The boats don't move quickly enough to make it thrilling, nor is there any mystery as to what's going to happen. It's a complete dud. The statement that Aquatopia is his favorite ride, when the park includes Journey to the Center of the Earth, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, Tower of Terror, and Indiana Jones Adventure (just to name a few) is like saying that my favorite Disney theme park is Walt Disney Studios Paris--it's just BIZARRE and could never be justified in any kind of rational discussion. What do I personally think of DisneySea? It's a remarkable park, a wonderful immersive place with great rides and attractions (though there aren't enough of them). However, there always comes a point every day that I go to DisneySea where I feel that I'm just done with it and have an overwhelming desire to get back to Tokyo Disneyland next door. So, there is something in Lindsay's discussion, but I'm not sure he's nailed the problem.
Originally Posted By Mr X >>>Am I the only person who read that and thought, "This indicates that there's something WAY WAY off in this man's ability to judge theme park attrations"?<<< No, I thought the very same thing. However, in fairness, I've not yet begun to critique this article...that definitely would have come up. I do like Aquatopia for its kinetic appeal, like many elements of DisneySea that remind me of the old Tomorrowland...plus it's fun for the kids. not the best ride in the park, to be sure, CERTAINLY not a "must-do", but it has its uses.
Originally Posted By DlandJB I don't feel like I am in a position to say much about TDS until I get to see it in person in 2008 (hopefully), but it occured to me as a parent that a very legitimate way to judge these parks (DCA included) is how successful have they been for families? In my opinion, that is the primary target audience for all of the Disney theme parks. How well do they serve families and do they present a magical venue for people of all ages -- not just us grumpy middle aged or nearly middle aged adults. And since I'm being grumpy anyway, I have to express a bit of dismay to have a decidedly negative article on the homepage of the website. In the magazine, well, I wouldn't love it, but at least it is in that format. I would hate to see LP's website become lumped together with other sites that delight in pointing out the negative on a regular basis.
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan I don't think Aquatopia is that bad. Sure I wouldn't wait more than 15 minutes for it, but it's an enjoyable ride that is fun and whimsical. The simplicity of it gives it a nostalgic feel reminiscent of the bumper cars decades ago. I have to agree about TDS needing more attractions. I visited before Tower of Terror was open and since every single attraction was a walk-on, I rode almost everything in a single day (didn't catch some of the shows). On my third day (I chose to visit TDS on my park-hopper day), there was a point when I was wondering what to do next. The only attractions I really wanted to re-ride over and over again were Journey to the Center of the Earth, Indiana Jones, and 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. But by the late afternoon, I felt like I was out of stuff to do. I had ridden every E-ticket, some of them multiple times (rode JttCotE over 10 times that day). So I just sat down on a bench and admired all the great theming around me for a good 30 minutes. Then I got up and saw some of the atmospheric shows that I missed on the first day, as well as peeking into some of the shops and restaurants (something I didn't do on the first day). If I really wanted to, I guess I could've spend the whole day exploring the restaurants and shops but I didn't feel like it . So I went back to the MiraCosta and took a nap. Then I went back down to admire the beauty of TDS at nighttime and basically just taking in atmosphere again, as well as watching BraviSEAmo! For some reason, I had no desire to visit TDL. I have more fun at TDS and feel far more immersed than at TDL, not to mention I far prefer the atmosphere at TDS. When I can get all that rich, elaborate scenic beauty in addition to my favorite E-ticket attractions of all time, you can see why I choose to stay at TDS for the majority of my trip. Believe it or not, I actually only visited TDL once during my trip while visiting TDS 3 times. Although I felt like I had run out of things to do at TDS, that's nothing compared to how I felt at Epcot. I got through all the attractions in Future World by lunchtime and all the attractions inside World Showcase by mid-afternoon (and that includes everything). None of the attractions at Epcot had any repeatability for me, so I was forced to do nothing but walk around World Showcase by 3:00. I spent the rest of the day shopping and looking inside restaurants (and this was on the first day too). I don't know how people can spend more than a day here since there are so few attractions, especially ones of the E-ticket caliber. The environments in World Showcase, while impressive, don't offer the same kind of elegance and extravagance you get from the environments in TDS. Even for a extreme detail freak and Disney aficionado like me, there's not nearly enough detail to keep you intrigued and captivated. This problem is evident at almost all the new parks. HKDL, WDSP, DCA all suffer from the lack of attractions. For TDS, the problem is not as big but it's still there. Even though TDS has many full scale E-tickets, I think it needs a handful of dark rides to balance the selection just like at TDL. If you think about it, TDL doesn't have that much more E-tickets than TDS but it contains a whole bunch of C/D-tickets to fill your entire day. Granted, TDS is already a full-day park. It's just that whenever you visit a place too much, you will probably not be as excited anymore. Reason why Disneyland doesn't seem to stand out to me anymore. I go there only for a few attractions and spend the whole day re-riding those attractions just like I do at TDS.
Originally Posted By Mr X JB, an old poster by the name of OrlandoBoi replied to the very argument with a LONG post about the fact that DisneySea is practically the MOST family friendly park out there, with a great MIX of attractions that appeal to many age groups as well as plenty for a family to do together. I'd say that with the recent 2 additions (coaster and drop-ride) that ratio has sadly skewed a bit (just as it has in MGM and Epcot, and Epcot in PARTICULAR bums me out)...but still, on opening day the attractions roster was just so varied it was really interesting to hear someone describe exactly how interesting the mix really was. I agree on the second point too. Seems to me that we rarely see negative articles about DCA or other Disney parks...so why single out DisneySea? Well, I KNOW why...it's all about the author. I'm just a little bummed that Doobie et al choses to endorse those guys, but I suppose it makes financial sense.
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan I think that Raging Spirits and Tower of Terror were much needed to satisty the teenage/young adult market. Before those two opened, the only thrill ride was Journey to the Center of the Earth (and maybe Indiana Jones too). The rest of the attractions were suitable to all age groups. For the thrill seeker, the addition of Raging Spirits and Tower of Terror now give them a reason to visit TDS. Before, I'm sure that most thrill seekers opted to go to TDL because it contained more thrill rides (Splash Mountain, Big Thunder Mountain, and Space Mountain).
