Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "Astro Orbitor where Cosmic Waves is?" I think I'm less bothered by the Astro Orbiter being on the ground than I am by that thing that took it's place above the Peoplemover station. On my last visit we were having lunch at the Pizza Port when it started spinning. One of the restaurant attendants strolling by informed us that it was transmitting messages to outer space. My friends I just looked at her with blank stares. This is the kind of stuff that Disney does that really missing the mark, and despite their efforts, ends up making the company look silly instead of clever. It's very disappointing to know that Tomorrowland, a place that once showcased cutting edge concepts like picture phones, automated public transit and modern construction materials, now is a home for Buzz Lightyear, Nemo the cartoon fish, and a whirling sculpture that pretends to send messages into space. I really, really hate what Tomorrowland has become.
Originally Posted By monorailblue I'm laughing so hard at #41. I never thought about it, but I guess the TL music isn't a very helpful message to be broadcasting to the universe, is it? Hahaha. If we must have a horrid queue building at Autopia, why not build a new tower and put the spinner there, above the queue? Then, people might not realize how horribly ugly Autopia is now. Goodness, I miss Autopia pre-2000.
Originally Posted By ArchtMig >>>This is the kind of stuff that Disney does that really missing the mark, and despite their efforts, ends up making the company look silly instead of clever. It's very disappointing to know that Tomorrowland, a place that once showcased cutting edge concepts like picture phones, automated public transit and modern construction materials, now is a home for Buzz Lightyear, Nemo the cartoon fish, and a whirling sculpture that pretends to send messages into space. I really, really hate what Tomorrowland has become.<<< The spinning "observatron", as the remnants of the old rooftop Rocket Jets was rebranded to, is just one iconic symbol of what was wrong with Paul Pre$$ler's Tomorrowland '98. From that budget conscious failure which foretold what was to come 3 years later with DCA, I can't think of anything that endures as worthwhile or worthy of keeping. But where DCA at least has some original parts that will remain relatively original and intact after the major reconstruction is complete, I can't think of a single thing added or modified by Tomorrowland '98 that should not be relegated to the annals of Yesterland. Bear in mind that the current Autopia and Submarines improvements, Buzz Lightyear, new Space Mountain, and new Monorails for that matter, occurred long AFTER Tomorrowland '98 was planned, executed, derided, and forgotten as the biggest and most visible failure of the Pre$$ler / Harri$$ regime prior to DCA. And although those post '98 attractions are among the most debated and disagreed on as to their merit and worthiness, clearly they are not going anywhere, nor should they. Because, at least they are indicative of some decent MONEY resulting in some decent RESULTS, as opposed to an inadequate amount of MONEY resulting in very lame and forgettable mistakes. But everything else that remains from that retched Tomorrowland '98 should be wiped off the face of the earth, from the entry rocks and the Astro Orbiter, to Innoventions, to the spinning granite ball, to HISTA, to the coppery green and gold color schemes, and yes, to that confoundingly bad spinning egg beater on the top of the old People Mover platform.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>It's very disappointing to know that Tomorrowland, a place that once showcased cutting edge concepts like picture phones, automated public transit and modern construction materials, now is a home for Buzz Lightyear, Nemo the cartoon fish, and a whirling sculpture that pretends to send messages into space.<< ONE HUNDRED CLAPS/APPLAUSE! That's one of the best assessments on TL I've ever heard! BRAVO! Back on that idea of Astro Orbitor in place of Cosmic Waves ... I was looking around that area tonight .. and as bean mentioned .. with that extra queue space for HISTA out... it could fit. BUT THEN .. I realized this too ... the traffic flow of people trying to get around it .. to get to other things will become a traffic nightmare. One thing I didn't mention though in my earlier post .... I wasn't making reference to the current Astro Orbitor/DLP "Orbitron" to go on the 1967 perch. I'm imagining another "sleek" and "slender" design .. like the Apollo Rocket design the 1967 Rocket Jets had. My prediction is ..... We'll get a redesigned "Rocket Jets" to go where the '67 Rocket Jets was.
Originally Posted By EmmaJayne >>It's very disappointing to know that Tomorrowland, a place that once showcased cutting edge concepts like picture phones, automated public transit and modern construction materials, now is a home for Buzz Lightyear, Nemo the cartoon fish, and a whirling sculpture that pretends to send messages into space.<< I, like everyone else must applaud you for this. When I was in the park this June/July we looked at all the attractions once and then, Tommorrow Land become just a big empty space we had to cross to get to Space Mountain! We we're so dissapointed in the lack of theming of the area as well as the quality of the attractions. If it weren't for Space Mountain we woudln't have even gone back there.
Originally Posted By 2001DLFan <<Hans Reinhardt: "Astro Orbitor where Cosmic Waves is?" I think I'm less bothered by the Astro Orbiter being on the ground than I am by that thing that took it's place above the Peoplemover station. On my last visit we were having lunch at the Pizza Port when it started spinning. One of the restaurant attendants strolling by informed us that it was transmitting messages to outer space. My friends I just looked at her with blank stares. This is the kind of stuff that Disney does that really missing the mark, and despite their efforts, ends up making the company look silly instead of clever. It's very disappointing to know that Tomorrowland, a place that once showcased cutting edge concepts like picture phones, automated public transit and modern construction materials, now is a home for Buzz Lightyear, Nemo the cartoon fish, and a whirling sculpture that pretends to send messages into space. I really, really hate what Tomorrowland has become.>> Well, there has been a lot of negative talk about what replaced the Rocket Jets on the People Mover Platform. As an exercise, what would everyone suggest would have been a better use for the space? Given: 1) The new Astro Orbitor would NOT be going there. 2) VERY limited budget. 3) You can use any remaining mechanisms from the old Rocket Jets if you like. While there may be quite a few good ideas for what could have been done with that platform, it may not be easy to come up with something that many can agree on.
Originally Posted By monorailblue How about putting Cosmic Bidet up there? Put a high railing, keep the gantry lifts, and all of a sudden, you have something that is a bazillion times more interesting than a bath-walkway combination.
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> As an exercise, what would everyone suggest would have been a better use for the space? << First, remove the peoplemover track altogether - it's gone. Second, build actual second storeys on the north and south buildings that straddle TL promenade. Third, fill this new level with interesting shops, eateries, and maybe even attractions - things that will generate foot traffic on the upper deck. Fourth, link all these decks together with elevated walkways, including several that would radiate out in several directions from the large round platform. On the pedestal itself, it probably won't support a lot of weight, but enough for some kind of sculpture or water fountain. It would be a wide circular area that forms a kind of central hub of several elevated walkways that link together a new second level of tomorrowland.
Originally Posted By bean "32 NEW! Hans Reinhardt Tue 12/16/2008 10:27a Oh, I didn't know that the decision to keep or remove an attraction depended on the whims of you and your son. I don't mean to be rude, but seriously, if you want to ride in a spinning rocket that badly there's a very nice one over at DCA. I'm not advocating the removal of Astro Orbiter, but doing so would have little impact on the enjoyment of the park for visitors. There are plenty of other similar things at DLR to do. " There is a big diference in the thrill factor for childrens between spinners like the zephyr and astro oribitor. The whole idea that you are flying high up and able to control some of the movement on the rockets is something kids look forward too. I also do not see similiar enjoyment or attraction equivalent to lets say Dumbo and astro orbitor. Those spinners are enjoyed by both young and adult guests. Peopl WILL wait 45 minutes or even an hour for these spinner rides. Also its not like they take up significant property space. Removal just for the sake of removal because there are other attractions children can enjoy is not the best solution.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Those tracks will be rehabilitated into a brand type of a Peoplemover .. even if it kills some of you!
Originally Posted By gadzuux Gee - I thought you'd like my pipedream more than most. You're often pitching for a multi-story TL.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt I know it'll never happen, but my dream Tomorrowland would one that involved a team of outsourced designers and planners to create an entirely new vision with no reference to the current land. I suppose that Space Mountain would remain, but most everything else would be leveled. In this "designer" Tomorrowland characters, situations, and references from movies would not be allowed.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<Those tracks will be rehabilitated into a brand type of a Peoplemover .. even if it kills some of you!>> They are turning the PM track into a Mission: Space type of ride?!
Originally Posted By 2001DLFan << gadzuux: “As an exercise, what would everyone suggest would have been a better use for the space? “ First, remove the peoplemover track altogether - it's gone. Second, build actual second storeys on the north and south buildings that straddle TL promenade. Third, fill this new level with interesting shops, eateries, and maybe even attractions - things that will generate foot traffic on the upper deck. Fourth, link all these decks together with elevated walkways, including several that would radiate out in several directions from the large round platform. On the pedestal itself, it probably won't support a lot of weight, but enough for some kind of sculpture or water fountain. It would be a wide circular area that forms a kind of central hub of several elevated walkways that link together a new second level of tomorrowland.>> Well, what I was looking for in that exercise was something that could have been done with the budget that they had for that platform. I would guess that it was probably less then $1 million. Your suggestion would probably cost a lot more than that.
Originally Posted By 2001DLFan <<Hans Reinhardt: I know it'll never happen, but my dream Tomorrowland would one that involved a team of outsourced designers and planners to create an entirely new vision with no reference to the current land. I suppose that Space Mountain would remain, but most everything else would be leveled. In this "designer" Tomorrowland characters, situations, and references from movies would not be allowed.>> My exercise was for the platform where the Rocket Jets used to be. Your dream idea would obviously run way over the budget that was allocated for the whole land (somewhere around $100 million as I recall hearing). That’s not to say that it wouldn’t have been worth the expense. If they were given $2-300 million, I’m sure that something significantly better could have been produced.
Originally Posted By ArchtMig >>>I know it'll never happen, but my dream Tomorrowland would one that involved a team of outsourced designers and planners to create an entirely new vision with no reference to the current land. I suppose that Space Mountain would remain, but most everything else would be leveled. In this "designer" Tomorrowland characters, situations, and references from movies would not be allowed.<<< They did that once. All of the buildings from WDW Magic Kingdom's Tomorrowland were designed by the architectural firm of Welton Becket and Assoc. And they sure do look like it. They are firmly rooted in the 1960s style era from which they were born. Mickey's Starland (now known as Mickey's Toontown Faire) at WDW was designed by outside consultants. The buildings are all perfectly level and plumb, with sharply defined corners and regular rooflines. After that, Tony Baxter and others decided to try it again, but do it right this time, and the result was Disneyland's much more appropriately cartooney screwbally implemented Mickey's Toontown. And before any of that, even before Disneyland opened its doors in 1955, Walt himself consulted outside designers and architects about the design of his new park. Sensing that these folks had no clue as to what Walt had in mind, Walt made one of the most important decisions he ever made which still largely affects the quality of Disney theme park design to this day: He took the job away from the outside architects and assigned his in house studio set designers and artists the task of fleshing out his dream. Regardless of whether the job is done by WDI or outside consultants (as seems to be the trend as of late), the most important thing is to make sure that artists and set designers do the initial and ongoing design work, and then let the architects figure out how to implement the designs in real world built form. And I say this as a practicing architect, and I love my profession, but I know the mindset of my fellow practitioners, so I know of what I speak.
