Originally Posted By Dabob2 Whether it's #1 or not is almost immaterial, compared to the facts that a). it's apparently pretty dang bad, and b). unlike California, they seemingly haven't done anything to mitigate it. <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.ksl.com/?sid=28213550">http://www.ksl.com/?sid=28213550</a> When I was a kid in SoCal, the air was really, really, REALLY bad. Your eyes would smart after just a short time outside. Your chest would feel tight too. I grew up only about a mile from the foothills of the San Gabriels. Beautiful, 10,000 foot high mountains. Yet on a typical summer day you couldn't even see them (!) It was like someone hung a gigantic thick gray curtain in front of them. If you didn't know they were there, you'd never have known. And, of course, you were breathing that stuff in. You could always tell how smoggy it was by how well you could see the mountains. If the Santa Anas were blowing, you could see them clearly (they blew the smog out over the ocean). If you could sort of see an outline, it was a bad but not horrendous day. If you couldn't see them at all, you knew your eyes would be watering if you played outside. But a funny thing happened. California took steps (i.e. - gasp! - government regulation!) to improve the air quality. And it worked. On recent trips to my old home town, I could see the mountains EVERY day, even in summer. Sometimes hazily - it's not like smog has disappeared - but never was there that solid thick gray curtain. And the area has MORE people than it used to, so that's particularly impressive. The number of smog alert days in greater LA is a fraction of what it used to be. It's still a long way from great - with the inversion layer LA has, there will always be a problem - but it's waaaaaay better than it was. ecdc's point was with the air in SLC at least approaching LA levels (with nowhere near as many people) and all the health problems that entails, what are local leaders focusing on? A glass partition in restaurants? Really?
Originally Posted By Donny from the video I just watched,it looks like they are working on the issue.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Honestly,can you show me a study that puts SLC #1<< You missed the part where I said, "right now." During the summer months, Salt Lake is pretty swell for air quality. And after a storm comes in and cleans out the valley, it's fine too. But after even a couple of days, it's horrible again. The point that you are so clearly trying to avoid is, it's a serious problem. My children can't go outside to play. But the most powerful institution in the state doesn't say one word about it. Instead, people that haven't so much as tasted a drop of alcohol in their 80+ years on earth are lecturing and legislating and telling people what's best for them. It's just pathetic and maddening all at the same time. My children not being able to play outside: A-ok, apparently. My children seeing alcohol being mixed in a restaurant: DISASTER!!! (My oldest son mixes drinks for family and friends at home. He's quite adept at it. Take that, Mormons!)
Originally Posted By Dabob2 To a degree. A lot of that was pretty vague, though. "More efficient vehicles" for instance was just saying that newer cars will be more efficient - this is something coming out of Detroit/Japan, etc., not instituted by Utah. There were a COUPLE of more concrete things in there, and good on them if they're serious about it.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>There were a COUPLE of more concrete things in there, and good on them if they're serious about it.<< That's just it. This has been going on for years. It's finally got so bad in the last few years that the issue has moved out of environmental circles to the forefront. And it's *finally* (but still not completely) crossing party lines at the grassroots. Funny how people who scoff at climate change and environmentalism suddenly care when they literally can't breathe the air around them.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip And AGAIN... At least three dead (including the shooter) at a shopping mall in Columbia, MD.
Originally Posted By fkurucz ^^This is happening on a nearly daily basis now. Anyone notice that this is not the case in Western Europe or Japan? Gee, I wonder why?
Originally Posted By ecdc Hey, it could've been a lot worse, they could've been killed by a drunk driver.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/25/us/maryland-mall-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1">http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/25/...pt=hp_t1</a> F- you, Donny. A big, fat F-YOU and everyone like you for making this possible.
Originally Posted By ecdc Post 155 still says it best. We all understand there's risks involved in driving. Going to the mall shouldn't be a place where I can get gunned down. Quick story: I was shopping today at Costco. Came out into the parking lot and a guy got out of his car and started screaming obscenities at another couple who had left their cart partway in his space. They were loading up their car with children; it's not clear if they planned to put the cart away or not. The couple started yelling back, and it started getting ugly. I got in my car and left. I imagine the fight ended with more yelling, but I immediately thought, "God I hope no one is armed." It reminded me of the guy in Florida at the movie theatre. You could tell this guy was just really angry in general that people can't be bothered to put their carts away, and he decided to take it out on this couple. If a gun had been present, I'd hate to think of what could've happened. Of course, if Donny had been walking by, he'd probably have thought it was necessary to draw his gun....
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder But there's no talking to morons like Donny. They're going to pull this alcohol stupidity out of their backsides or some other completely irrelevant, unrelated response and blithely go on giving the middle finger to the families of those who lost people to gun violence. Rot in hell, all of them. Said it before- the second amendment was meant to ensure we have armed, well regulated militias in case the British attacked back in the 1770's. Don't need to worry about the British anymore, and the provisions of the second amendment have nothing to do anymore with our highly sophisticated and armed military here in 2014. Therefore the second amendment either needs to be changed to specifically say it empowers the citizenry to arm themselves in shopping malls and classrooms or it needs to be declared null and void and all the redneck sh!t for brains need to relinquish their penile extensions.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip With the increasing frequency of these events the NRA will either be forced to become part of the solution or they will be left out of the discussion altogether.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>With the increasing frequency of these events the NRA will either be forced to become part of the solution or they will be left out of the discussion altogether.<< That's what a lot of us have been saying. That's what the NRA and guys like Donny don't get. It won't be this time. It most likely won't be the next time. But these events will keep happening. And the day will come when something so awful happens (100 school children, instead of 20?) that the rest of the public will be so fed up, that it will be seen as a public health crisis. And when that happens, the anger will be so great that it'll be people like me--people who don't own guns and despise them--who end up making the decisions. Gun owners will scream and yell and there will be more than one cry for rebellion. They won't follow through with this, excepting a handful of nuts here and there. Ultimately, gun owners are on the road to serious disappointment.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<I was shopping today at Costco. Came out into the parking lot and a guy got out of his car and started screaming obscenities at another couple who had left their cart partway in his space. They were loading up their car with children; it's not clear if they planned to put the cart away or not. The couple started yelling back, and it started getting ugly. I got in my car and left.>> I saw something similar happen in SF last year, only on the street over a parking space. Some guy was waiting to back into a space someone else was vacating, when the car behind the vacating vehicle dove quickly into the space before the vehicle backing up had a chance to turn his wheels. At that point, the first driver got out of his car and started shouting at the driver in the parking space. Then that guy out of his car and started yelling back. You could have heard these guys for several blocks. I have no idea what happened next because the traffic light changed, but I guarantee that if one of them had been armed, the other one would have been DOA, for how quickly things were turning.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >> but I immediately thought, "God I hope no one is armed."<< I too have witnessed scenarios like that, and I made haste to remove myself from the scenes just in case one of the parties was an armed knucklehead.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 The worst is when that happens on the subway. It doesn't happen often, but last summer there were two young guys fighting over I-don't-know-what (but it went from 0 to 60 awfully fast). You can't even walk between cars in many of the newer trains, so you're just stuck there.
Originally Posted By Donny ", if Donny had been walking by, he'd probably have thought it was necessary to draw his gun...." No I would be a good witness
