Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "And if I were the judge in that case, I'd consider locking up the parties concerned for bringing forth a legal effort to bankrupt the United States Government. I'm sure a case could be made for attempted treason." Well, no. You had it right the first time. I believe even the article says the plaintiffs don't expect to get all they're asking for, but they're just making a point here, in another words a "lawyering technique." "It's early I was just throwing a number out there." Which is what the plaintiffs are doing DAR, so if you read your own link you'd see that. X is right, It's all about negotiating and settling, once the government determines which claims have merit and which don't.
Originally Posted By Mr X Well, SP, in the case of the quadrillion thing though, it's just ludicrous to the point of being insulting to the courts, I think. Going for a billion, though? Not a bad idea I think.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Well, look at it this way. When a large amount of people gets screwed over by Brownie, who was doing a heckuva job, if someone actually gets out a calculator and adds up all the damage, sometimes these things happen. Certainly not realistic in the long run, but if one takes a step back for a moment to look at it objectively, it kind of puts the lack of preparation by all parties involved, the government and the residents, in perspectives. It tells the government this is what happens when they don't do their work properly, and it alerts the residents that they can't always depend on Uncle Sam to save their asses and they need to take some responsibilty for their own damn selves, because maybe that check at the end of the day won't be there after all.
Originally Posted By DAR << It tells the government this is what happens when they don't do their work properly, and it alerts the residents that they can't always depend on Uncle Sam to save their asses and they need to take some responsibilty for their own damn selves>> Funny which is what I've basically been saying.
Originally Posted By Mr X **When a large amount of people gets screwed over by Brownie, who was doing a heckuva job, if someone actually gets out a calculator and adds up all the damage, sometimes these things happen.** Sure, I agree..except the quadrillion thing which doesn't even make sense. Definitely reminiscent of Dr. Evil.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I am convinced that Hurricane Katrina evacuses are trying to rewrite history. Here are a list of the most devistating hurricanes that have struck out country. <a href="http://www.hurricaneville.com/historic.html" target="_blank">http://www.hurricaneville.com/ historic.html</a> According to this website the Galveston Hurricane of 1900 was the deadliest natural disaster this country has ever had. I also find the statement about a complete "government failure" to be a blanket statement. Just what "government" are we talking about; the city of New Orleans, the state of Lousianna, the Federal Government? An evacuation order was given, many ( not most ) of the citizens of New Orleans refused a mandatory evacuation order. Just what part of "this is the big one" do you think they failed to understand? It seems as if ever time there is a devistating natural diseaster elsewhere in this country where it be mud slides or fires in California, or devistating snow storms in Colorado, fires hurricanes and droughts in Puerto Rico, Georgia and Florida, SC, NC or anywhere along the Atlantic coast or volcanoes in Washington State or Hawaii the rules apply but when it comes to anything related to the city of New Orleans then the rules fly out the door. Why is the City of New Orleans so special and unique that they are more deserving and in fact demand our nations compassion and charity that any other community in our Republic?
Originally Posted By Mr X **Just what part of "this is the big one" do you think they failed to understand?** Sure, but again, and to go back to pointing out the businesses that were affected, it does seem that the government didn't build the levees properly all things considered. And that would be the FEDERAL government, I believe.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom The city is mostly bellow sea level. Perhaps the state of Lousianna and the city of New Orleans should have been putting all those Federal dollars they were routinely getting to maintain those levies to good use instead of spending the money elsewhere. That would be the State and local governments fault.
Originally Posted By Mr X **The city is mostly bellow sea level.** Therein lies the rub...the city should never have been developed in the first place!
Originally Posted By wahooskipper From the beginning the Federal government got more of the blame that it deserved. Did it (Brown, Bush, FEMA, etc) deserve blame? Yes. Should they be held accoutable? Yes. But, let's not ignore the udder failure of the City of New Orleans, the State of Louisiana and the residents themselves. I live in a hurricane-prone area. In South Florida you are told that if you don't obey evacuation orders you are on your own. Give us your next of kin numbers in case we have to tell someone you died. In South Florida we are told to be prepared for a minimum of 3 days without Federal assistance. So, get your food, water, generators, etc in advance. They don't tell only the rich people to do that. They tell everyone to do that. It isn't that I don't feel for the victims of Katrina. I do...and I made donations to back up my sincerity. But, I am so sick of everyone EXCEPT the Federal Government getting a free pass in all of this. I talked to an aquaintance in the Coast Guard who was flying over New Orleans trying to pick survivors off of roofs. At one home they sent a guy down to retrieve the first of about 8 people. The diver came back with noone. The pilot asked what the deal was and he was told to forget picking them up but, instead, bring back some beer. There is plenty of fault to spread around.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost You guys are arguing over numbers that are arbitrary at best. Let's talk about the issues involved. Did the government act in any irresponsible way that created a bigger problem? Where they merely unequipped to deal with a disaster of that magnitude or was it a conscious effort to not care about those "poor" people and let them suffer? I don't know the answer to these questions but some of you appear to have a handle on it. What exactly could the government have done better? Do you have the ability to say I KNOW this to be true? They intentionally ignored the situation? It could be true, I don't know, but how do you prove that there weren't mitigating circumstances? There is no better vision then hindsight.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost Sorry I was posting while all the rest of you were making an argument. I got called away. If you've already answered my questions, then ignore me.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<But, I am so sick of everyone EXCEPT the Federal Government getting a free pass in all of this. >> Exactly, its the Britany Spears defense. Just as Britany Spears would like for the world to believe that everything that has gone right in her life is because she scraficed, worked hard and persevered. But, everything bad in her life is because of the nasty, mean media and Britany Spears detractors. The City of New Orleans is trying to do that same thing. They are trying to say that everything that has gone right in New Orleans is because the city has worked hard, scraficed and persevered. But everything bad is because of the nasty, mean Federal Government. The City of New Orleans is built bellow sea level and surrounded by water. I liken this to a pack of cigaretts with a warning label. Just as you can get cancer from smoking cigaretts. If you live in a city, which is bellow sea level and surrounded by water, there is always the off chance you just might get flooded. There have been floods in the City of New Orleans before. What sets this flood apart is that in 2005 the City of New Orleans didn't even follow their own Emergency Flood Plan.
Originally Posted By DAR <<the udder failure >> I think it's utter failure. Udder failure is when a cow can't produce any milk.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Indeed...I was thirsty when I wrote that. Can you have utter "udder" failure? Well, you can't...but can a cow?
Originally Posted By DAR Here's a statement that really bugged me from the attorney that filed the claims: <<Daniel Becnel, Jr., a lawyer who said his clients have filed more than 60,000 claims, said measuring Katrina's devastation in dollars and cents is a nearly impossible task. "There's no way on earth you can figure it out," he said. "The trauma these people have undergone is unlike anything that has occurred in the history of our country.">> Really? This trauma was the worst that anyone has gone through in the history of our country? Maybe for them it was. But that's a pretty assinine statement to say. I hate to break it to him but people in this country throughout have gone through just as bad. 9/11, Pearl Harbor, numerous wars, slavery, Disney's California Adventure,the invention of right wing talk radio.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper If you lose your house you lose your house. It doesn't matter if it was a gas line explosion, an earthquake, a mudslide or anything else. To say those folks in Lousiana were MORE of a victim than the folks in Homestead, Florida after Hurricane Andrew is absurd. Speaking of which, that City hasn't fully recovered from that...and it happened 16 years ago. Do you hear them blaming the Federal government?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Nothing from nothing here, but since Katrina sports organizations have made it a point to hold tournaments, games, etc. in New Orleans as a way of showing support and how the town has recovered. The latest example is the BCS title game. However, the inevitable side bar stories pop up about how less than a block away people are still living under highway bridges and whole neighborhoods look just like they did after Katrina two years later. At some point the area itself needs to take care of its own. To that end, I will NEVER understand how Ray Nagin is still in office.
