Originally Posted By leobloom >> Amen. But i think Disney knows that i am no longer its audience. My kids and my kids kids are and will be and NexGen will appeal to them << Yeah, but Disney has coasted on nostalgia for far too long. Your kids and your kids' kids aren't going to have the same nostalgia for ol' Kiddy World. They're open to being loyal customers at other places...
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I've been skeptical about it from the start. My motto has always been if it ain't broke don't fix it." But is broken Lee. How many more decades can Disney expect people to come in droves paying premium prices and waiting in line under the hot blazing sun and be satisfied? With the exception of FP and the introduction of POP ticketing, the process for visiting any given attraction has largely been the same for the past 60 years. The final implementation of NGE may not be to everyone's liking, but I think we can all agree that the idea of addressing congestion and guest distribution with innovative technology is a good thing.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>...but I think we can all agree that the idea of addressing congestion and guest distribution with innovative technology is a good thing.<< I disagree with this. I think that addressing congestion and guest distribution with innovative means is a good thing, but it doesn't nessecarily need to have any sort of tech component. When they were building the new Denver airport in the early 90's, they created a high-tech automated baggage handling system that would sort and deliver checked bags without needing humans to do anything beyond loading and unloading the planes themselves. The technology didn't work, caused the airport opening to be delayed, and was quickly replaced by a traditional labor-intensive system that actually worked. And it's still in use today. Logisitics is complicated, especially when things begin to be translated into the real world, where things don't always work how they're expected. Barcodes on bags are tough to read, guests change their patterns in the way they use the parks, and suddenly you're left with a very expensive system that's pretty much useless Just because there's innovative technology behind it doesn't mean a thing. They need a system that works, regardless of what it takes to implement it; I'm skeptical of the premise behind the NextGen system, and skeptical that Disney's IT infrastructure will be able to handle the volume once it goes live.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I think the long term ramifications both good and bad from NexGen remains to be seen. I applaud Disney for taking its time rolling it out and trying to understand the system, but I know that once it goes fully live there will be a whole bunch of unexpected things that will result from it. I am curious on how it will affect guest flow in particular. By spreading out 4 FP+ options in a day will it cut back on park hopping? If an attraction that currently isn't on FP becomes a FP+ option how will it affect its wait time? Things like this remain to be seen. It should be interesting.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt " I disagree with this. I think that addressing congestion and guest distribution with innovative means is a good thing, but it doesn't nessecarily need to have any sort of tech component. " Absolutely Ferret, and I'm not insisting that high tech is required here. The point i was making to Lee is that the way guests are currently herded through the parks is inefficient and antiquated both from an operations standpoint and for guest enjoyment. To me it's something of a breakthrough that a major theme park operator is actively trying to address something that I think we all agree limits our enjoyment at when we visit these places.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I am not sure I follow what you're thinking. Can you explain why you think the parks are inefficient and antiquated and NexGen helps
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Can you explain why you think the parks are inefficient and antiquated..." Not trying to be flip, but isn't it obvious? "...and NexGen helps" I can't really speak about NGE because I don't know enough about how Disney will eventually use it speak specifically about how it will improve the current situation. However, it does seem to me that there are potential benefits to the system in terms of staffing, venue and attraction management, traffic flow, and wait times if large numbers of guests participate.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I still don't think I am following you on this. An attraction has an hourly capacity that won't change with NexGen. Some attractions have the same number of CM's no matter how many people are in the park. Peter Pan is a great example of this. Others like Space Mountain, Grand Prix and Kilimanjaro can add or subtract sides or vehicles but that is usually based on projected park attendance. I don't see how NexGen will help any of that. And I still don't understand why you think the parks are ineffecient and antiquated. Are you talking about the attractions themselves or how the park moves people through it?
Originally Posted By leemac <<"Can you explain why you think the parks are inefficient and antiquated..." Not trying to be flip, but isn't it obvious?>> It isn't to me so perhaps you can enlighten me. Theme parks are inefficient by their nature - guests can go where and when they please. You offer a host of experiences and it is down to the individual guest to determine their running order for the day. I don't see how NGE is going to make the parks more efficient than before. <<However, it does seem to me that there are potential benefits to the system in terms of staffing, venue and attraction management, traffic flow, and wait times if large numbers of guests participate.>> NGE is adding CMs to the mix - previously FP-less attractions like Tea Cups now require more CMs to police the entrance. In fact I can't seem to think of a single NGE-affected area that hasn't seen an increase (although in the long term the plan is to reduce CMs at the main gate). Again I'm failing to understand how traffic flow will be improved by NGE. There will be some artificial manipulation of guests (by offering FPs for previously un-FP'ed experiences) but I can't see how it will be improved by NGE.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I don't see how NGE is going to make the parks more efficient than before." Maybe I don't understand NGE then. My understanding was that ultimately attractions, venues, restaurants and other activities would be available on a reservation basis for those who opted into the system. Wouldn't that make the experience more efficient, at least for those using the system?
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Again I'm failing to understand how traffic flow will be improved by NGE." I'm not saying that it will be. All I we can do is speculate on what capabilities NGE has. To answer your question: If it's a reservation system, wouldn't that mean that once a ride, restaurant or activity is fully booked the party would be offered the next available opening well in advance of their visit, thus distributing guests to attractions in a more efficient manner? The way it works now you're at the mercy of whatever the given wait time is the moment you walk up to the attraction. Also, I would assume that if large numbers of guests are participating in the system data from NGE would give management a better gauge on projected attendance and guest demand for any given day, which would lead to more efficient management of resources.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 My understanding of NexGen is that you will get to choose 4 FP+ attractions and you will be offered a couple of different time options for each. One will be what we would call an E ticket, two C or D ticket and one parade or show reserved seating. That means that the rest of your day you will be enjoying the standby lines. NexGen is just like FP except you can choose your time and you have it before you get to the park. The only thing that may change guest flow is the possibility of FP+ keeping guest in a single park longer during the day rather then park hop, but I am still not sure that is the case.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "NexGen is just like FP except you can choose your time and you have it before you get to the park. " Yep, that's the way it's apparently being rolled out, however I'm talking about potential applications for the system. I'm making the assumption that eventually MyMagic+ will be far more comprehensive than just a handful of FP+ reservations.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>The only thing that may change guest flow is the possibility of FP+ keeping guest in a single park longer during the day rather then park hop, but I am still not sure that is the case.<< It will also likely change traffic patterns within the parks themselves. Now that you have a reservation for attractions like the teacups, you'll probably need a waiting area nearby for folks who who up early (which is sure to happen when you have a 1-hour window scheduled for each reservation). Now that you can direct guests to attractions that previously had unused capacity, those areas of the park will see more traffic (ie, I wouldn't ride Triceratops Spin on my own, but if it was the only FP+ available I'd take it). They can also manipulate the times of the reservations to get guests into the parks earlier and/or later, to attempt to spread the crowds more evenly thoughout the day. While on the surface, there's relatively little that changes the guest flow from FP to FP+, there's a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes that can really twist things around. For better or for worse, it will completely change how the parks function and are experienced from a guest's perspective.
Originally Posted By cheesybaby <<For better or for worse, it will completely change how the parks function and are experienced from a guest's perspective.>> Not necessarily. This is where the issue of a possible disparity exists between how Disney *wants* people to use the system vs. how people *actually* use the system. Let's say I'm going to the MK one day and FP+ allows me to "pre-book" a FP for 1 E-ticket, 2 C/D-tickets, and one show. I pre-book Space Mountain for noon, Small World for 1PM, Peter Pan for 2PM, and seating for the night parade. Disney allocates staffing accordingly and forecasts that the busiest time of the day for Fantasyland will be the afternoon, and that the night parade will be well-attended (so ride staffing can be decreased at that time). But what if I actually do this: I ride Space at noon with my reservation, but then I get sidetracked from my plan and take a late lunch. Do I want to run to Small World by 1PM? My party decides no thanks, let's stay in Tomorrowland and ride Space again standby since we're already here. Likewise, we blow off Peter Pan at 2PM and hit Big Thunder instead. I realize that I *can* use my smartphone to change my reservations, but it's no big deal - it's only 2 C-ticket rides - so I don't. Later, as the night parade approaches, we notice that people are camping out like crazy for the parade and ride lines are short. We never cared about the night parade anyway, we only got a reservation because it was the best of the 3 or 4 mediocre show reservation choices Disney gave us, and we had to pick something. So we skip the night parade and instead knock out Peter Pan and Small World during the night parade while the lines are short. So... if Disney allocated CM staffing according to what I had *planned* to do, they made a mistake and staffing was incorrectly allocated. They spent all that money on NGE and yet they gained zero efficiency from me. I used my Space reservation and then just did what I wanted to do anyway. Not sure what ROI they got from me and my party. The "efficiencies" gained from NGE only work if the *guests* agree to be efficient. People can plan to do lots of things - but then might not actually do them. I guess it will all depend on what percentage of people actually behave the way they say - six months in advance - that they will behave. In my example, did NGE "completely" change my experience in the parks? No. My experience was identical to if I had merely gotten a FP for Space Mountain in the current system. *Some* people's experience in the parks will doubtless be changed, but not all. How many - that is the question. (Of course I am only addressing guest flow efficiencies in my example - I understand this is just one piece of the puzzle.)
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>I realize that I *can* use my smartphone to change my reservations...<< Assuming there are still slots available. With how restaurant bookings fill up, I suspect you'll have a tough time making any day-of changes to your itinerary. Depending what time of year you visit, you may have issues changing it within a week. I sure feel bad for families who booked their big vacation, and reserved all the FPs like they were supposed to, only to discover in Orlando that their kid is terrified by thrill rides, or vice versa. >>The "efficiencies" gained from NGE only work if the *guests* agree to be efficient.<< Correct, but I think that most guests will want to stick to the itineraries. Because all attractions will have FP, the standby queues will all move more slowly, making it pretty painful to do much of anything. Plus, whenever I'm given some sort of benefit for 'free' I feel like I need to take advantage of it, even if it's a little inconvenient. I think there's a lot of psychology to how NextGen is packaged (and FP currently), and most guests would rather get hit by a bus than miss their reservation for an attraction
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "So... if Disney allocated CM staffing according to what I had *planned* to do, they made a mistake and staffing was incorrectly allocated." I would imagine that over time algorithms in the system would account for no-shows, ride failures, weather patterns, and the like and create more accurate prediction of how traffic in the parks ebb and flow. For the money invested in developing this system it has to do more than just spit out FPs. Or, on the other hand, the whole thing could just blow up in their faces.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Disney has a history of excellence when it comes to increasing utilization of their facilities. Case in point is the DDP... it has increased utilization of it's table service restaurants from probably about 75% of capacity to well over 90%. Has it improved the guest experience? Not as far as I'm concerned... I don't like it a bit. But no one can doubt that Disney achieved it's objective with the program.
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad This may be a stupid question . Is regular fast pass going to be expanded, remain the same, or removed when nex-gen is implemented? I thought nex-gen was additional.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros At best, the regular FP will remain as it is now. More likely, people using the NextGen system won't be allowed to use regular FPs (only the pre-arranged ones). There's also a (relatively good) chance that FP is entirely eliminated, and converted to the NextGen system, requiring advance reservations. There are in-park kiosks that will allow you to change your reservations, so presumably day trippers and people staying off property would be able to use that, but Disney has given no indication whether or not the system will be just for their hotel guests.
