Originally Posted By RoadTrip As long as stock options remain a major component of U.S. executive salaries the Wal-Marting will continue. In the end the execs care far more about shareholder value than customer satisfaction.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^Trippy, Wall Street and our banking system is largely a giant Ponzi scheme and that has made the whole idea of allegedly pleasing shareholders all the more laughable. I am seriously thinking most folks would rather invest in a scam than in a real business venture these days.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I have heard much criticism about this topic and have yet to hear any solution other than expanding the work force and all in the same breath complaints about how much everything costs. They go hand in hand, take your pick, which one is the lesser of evils*** When it comes to Disney quality, I think the answer is obvious.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost I guess those that don't want to see it as BS won't and those the do want to will. Spirit I totally respect your knowledge of all things Disney, however, even a genius, like yourself cannot be an expert in everything. People judge their surrounds based on where they are coming from, not where you are coming from. Perhaps you have been blessed with the good fortune of always having and expecting perfection. Sadly, most people have not had that luck. To them Disney is great. All your sputtering about how it used to be is without any real influence in most peoples minds. They cannot relate to what they have not seen, only to what they are seeing. Even the idea that it was "so much better" is iffy. Memories have a funny way of being so much better and clearer then reality even if they really aren't what was actually happening. For example, on my first visit in 1983 there was an animatronic chicken on Tom Sawyer Island that wasn't working. Luckily I didn't base my experience on that sad fact. Instead I was able to focus on all the things that were working properly. Did that make me a fool for letting Disney be shoddy? I'm sure you would think so, but I don't. How about sometime in the early 90's when standing by Casey's the overwhelming odor of rotting garbage almost made me gag. And speaking of Casey's...opening up a ketchup pack and finding it rancid. According to you I should never have returned...what a lousy way to do business. Besides being bent on citing examples of how everything doesn't have to be perfect in order to be enjoyable, you might want to notice the dates of these events. It wasn't last month, it was steady in the glorious wonderful years of WDW when everything was guided by the hand of God and money was being spent on maintaining the guests experience at an astronomical level. I guess it's all on how we view things as to the feelings we have about it.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Besides being bent on citing examples of how everything doesn't have to be perfect in order to be enjoyable.>> No, it doesn't. But it should be damn well close. And lately, it ain't close at WDW. There's TOO much wrong. A couple broken effects here and there isn't a big deal. But when you see multiple attractions with multiple broken effects, there's something wrong. And when one of the resort's biggest attractions goes the majority of its existence without it's primary showpiece, there's something wrong. When the flagship park goes over 20 years without a major attraction, there's something wrong. When you cut down a nighttime show which is one of the biggest draws on property to one day a week, there's something wrong. And when the company shuts an entire entertainment district, doesn't announce any plans for it for 2 years without having ANY tenants signed up for it, and secretly saying in house that it is going to be a four year plan, there's something wrong. There is something fundamentally wrong with the management direction WDW has taken in the past 8-10 years. You don't have to expect complete perfection in your trips to see it, nor do you have to be a complete veteran to see it either.
Originally Posted By CaptainMichael <<And when the company shuts an entire entertainment district, doesn't announce any plans for it for 2 years without having ANY tenants signed up for it, and secretly saying in house that it is going to be a four year plan, there's something wrong.>> Anyone who can defend Disney with a straight face after what has went down with Pleasure Island is truly delusional. They have no plan. It's incredible.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I think Disney closed it down to get rid of a problem. Attendance had really dropped despite repeated attempts to find a mix of clubs that would work. If I'm remembering correctly they even tried charging a small cover at each club instead of the all-clubs ticket at the gate. Nothing worked. Meanwhile, the people there late at night seemed to be getting rowdier, drunker and very "un-Disney". Disney took a black-eye from the prevalence of crime in the area and it's parking lots. This is a case where nothing was better than what was there.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<I think Disney closed it down to get rid of a problem. Attendance had really dropped despite repeated attempts to find a mix of clubs that would work. If I'm remembering correctly they even tried charging a small cover at each club instead of the all-clubs ticket at the gate. Nothing worked.>> Disney tried NOTHING to help out PI in the last 5 years of its existence. It stopped marketing it, it stopped pushing it. They wanted it to die. <<Disney took a black-eye from the prevalence of crime in the area and it's parking lots.>> No they didn't. That was a fanboi myth created to defend the rat...I'm sorry, the mouse.
Originally Posted By CaptainMichael I'm sure there was a huge criminal element coming from the Adventurers Club, Comedy Warehouse, and Mannequins...
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Blaming the customers is a weak argument ----------------- if this is the only part of the argument then yes I agree with you...but you cannot tell me that people are far piggier than they were 20 years ago, and certainly 40 years ago. There is virtually NO respect for anything any more. Things kids do today my parents would have cracked me in the head for-- anywhere, not jsut at a theme park. The age of entitlement where " I paid my money, I can do whatever the hell I want" is awful. This is not a WDW phenomenon- this happens anywhere and everywhere today. Parenting a lost art- likely because the parents are some of the entitled group. You and I have both seen kids throw crap on the ground and say well that's what thise people are paid for -- talk to Hertz and places who tell you the life expectancy of their rental fleet goes down continually because of the way people treat things not theirs. So yes, I agree it cannot be the only excuse ( and in Tripps case- the mold issue is not anyone's fault but maintenance-- but their job is much harder to keep up today
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>I think Disney closed it down to get rid of a problem. Attendance had really dropped despite repeated attempts to find a mix of clubs that would work. If I'm remembering correctly they even tried charging a small cover at each club instead of the all-clubs ticket at the gate. Nothing worked. Meanwhile, the people there late at night seemed to be getting rowdier, drunker and very "un-Disney". Disney took a black-eye from the prevalence of crime in the area and it's parking lots. This is a case where nothing was better than what was there<<< If I recall, that only started happening after they dropped the general admission ticket. Another query though, does City Walk have such issues?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<No they didn't. That was a fanboi myth created to defend the rat...I'm sorry, the mouse.>> I'm not so sure. I personally saw the crowd get 'scarier' over the years. There were also incidents there that made the national news. I guess I didn't realize the fanbois had that kind of link with the mainstream media!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 RT- I saw the same thing and documented it in other threads here with examples and was told basically- you just have those 4-5 examples ? Well since I only visit 7-10 days a year that answer is yes..so maybe some fanboi's liked that crowd. I did not and it was getting drunker and uglier as time went by. so save your examples- we were obviously mistaken
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<There were also incidents there that made the national news.>> Like? Ever since the place was closed I've been searching for proof of the so called prevalent crime at PI, and I've never been able to find anything. And friends in DTD security have never been able to back those claims up either. And according to them, incidents are the same now as they were then.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I can tell you it made news in Chicago when a man was followed to an ATM and shot, and some incindiary device was burning in a trash can.. off the top of my head...because those people I know who don't particularly understand my fascination with Disney are quick to inform me that "look at the issues there also" -- and all the issues I had listed once were personal encounters--
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <a href="http://www.wftv.com/news/13608602/detail.html" target="_blank">http://www.wftv.com/news/13608...ail.html</a> <a href="http://www.examiner.com/violent-crime-in-national/dream-vacation-not-quite?render=print" target="_blank">http://www.examiner.com/violen...er=print</a> these are the type of articles that get picked up in newspapers across the country and reprinted..
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<I can tell you it made news in Chicago when a man was followed to an ATM and shot, and some incindiary device was burning in a trash can.>> Are you talking about this, they weren't shot, btw. <a href="http://www.wesh.com/r/13475958/detail.html" target="_blank">http://www.wesh.com/r/13475958...ail.html</a> Because what the news didn't report was that they didn't want to press charges if the assailants were found. IDK about you, but that shoots up a HUGE red flag on the credibility of the abduction claim. As for the "bomb", what if it happened inside the park? Would that make the park too dangerous to keep open? Somehow I doubt it. And by the way, there have been people beaten half to death inside the parks by other guests. Stuff like this can happen ANYWHERE at WDW. One or two bad things does not make rampant crime in an area. <<and all the issues I had listed once were personal encounters>> And? I've had drunk people push me around for not letting them on a ride after the park has closed. Crap is gonna happen.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I know that being on the Internet doesn't make it true, but there is a lot of it out there... <<Security crackdown at Downtown Disney After the "abduction" story from a couple of weeks back and the Saratoga Spring Resort swimmer, you would hope that Downtown Disney would be able to keep a low profile for a little while. No such luck. The latest news from the nighttime district is that Disney has ramped up its nighttime security force on weekends to take a closer look at the crowds on the Island. "A gang-like presence was unfortunately identified at Downtown Disney and it will not be tolerated. Additional deputies were proactively assigned to patrol the area and will continue as long as needed," Disney spokewoman Jacquee Polak told MousePlanet. "Our priority, and that of law enforcement, is to maintain a safe experience for our employees and tens of thousands of guests who visit Downtown Disney everyday to shop, dine and enjoy our entertainment offerings." Last weekend, 50 youths were told never to return to Disney property.>> Source: http://www.mouseplanet.com/8107/Walt_Disney_World_Park_Update PLEASURE ISLAND opened in May 1, 1989 with a wide variety of shops and night clubs like Mannequins, Motion, Comedy Warehouse, Adventure's Club, Rock and Roll Beach Club, 8Trax among others. Although the physical island is still there, the night clubs closed Sept. 27, 2008. It is believed that the Island began drawing the wrong type of crowds and crime started to rise in and around Downtown Disney. So, Disney pulled the plug and believe it or not things have calmed down. . . Hmmm, eliminate the alcohol and crime fades away, imagine that.>> Source: <a href="http://deydreem.blogspot.com/2009/09/extinct-disney-pt3.html" target="_blank">http://deydreem.blogspot.com/2...pt3.html</a> <<If you head to the Downtown Disney entertainment complex, you can expect to see more security. Walt Disney World wants to keep unwanted teens and young adults out. According to the "Orlando Sentinel," security guards and off-duty Orange County deputies handed out as many trespass warnings this past weekend as they did over the past five months. A Disney representative said a gang-like presence has been noticed and the company would not tolerate it. The representative said 11 off-duty deputies are now helping the normal four-person team at Downtown Disney. Recently, a tourist couple said that they had been abducted from a Downtown Disney parking lot and robbed.>> Source: <a href="http://micechat.com/forums/walt-disney-world-resort/68603-downtown-disney-increases-security-merged-threads.html" target="_blank">http://micechat.com/forums/wal...ads.html</a>
Originally Posted By sjhym333 While there were a couple of incidents at DTD and PI, I dont think it was prevelent. It may have been a factor but I think the bottom line was money.
Originally Posted By Mr X While I can't quite figure why Hokie is so vigorously defending the demise of P.I. (it's a conspiracy I tells ya! ), I would certainly say that it's pretty sad that they would JUST close it down without re-opening something new and exciting in its' place (doesn't have to be nightclubs, either). Just closing a big chunk of real estate without any future plans is bad for the imagine, bad for the customers, and bad all around. And Disney seems to be doing more and more of that as time goes by (what ever happened to River Country, anyway? Or Wonders of Life. Or the Odyssey restaurant? Or most of the backstage stuff at MGM? Or all those shops and eateries that used to be open but are not shuttered?). When DisneyWorld starts looking like a typical urban zone, complete with "downturned" areas including virtual boarded up windows and 'closed indefinitely' signs, something is horribly wrong with the company and the place itself. Sorry RT, not trying to take away from your fun trip, but just following the rather bizarre flow this topic has taken! ;p
