Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> FP doesn't bother me because I've been to SO many Disney parks so many times that I just don't care if I "miss" Space Mountain on a particular day. I don't bother getting into long stand-by lines at all. << Same for me. My "passion" about FP is based on the fact that I am a business-process professional. I have used Disney as a positive example in so many ways over the years. And then I run into a thing like FP which has good intentions and works to a point, but then has a way of ticking people off too. So instead of condemning it, I'd rather try to change it to make it more Disney, so I can even use FP as a good Disney business example.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> if they don't get volunteers, they do "forcibly" bump people (I don't know how they decide WHICH people though)...however that generally comes with more perks << I gotcha. I'm sure in the fine print on the ticket somewhere it says they can legally bump you if they have to, even if you have a reservation. But that they must compensate you in some way for your denied reservation. And of course they very much avoid this forceable bump most of the time. --------------- Note to the people who argue against my FastPass 3-hour cancellation suggestion -- Did you know that the airlines CAN legally bump you off a flight that you may have been booked on for 6 months in advance?
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> at least move it so standby does not have to watch people go to the front." << Exactly. When Disney occasionally let's VIP's in the side door to the front of the line, they don't parade them past the guests already in line. That just gets people wondering "who the heck are those people, and why do they get to bypass?" I realize that re-engineering queues to accomodate a physically separate line and entrance is difficult. For new attractions it lookes like they are trying to keep the lines separate. (Not true for Soarin'. But Everest does)
Originally Posted By Mr X Bye. As far as the having folks walking by, it kinda hurts that the lines are usually "side by side"...so the losers have to watch the winners stroll on by in a steady stream while their line doesn't move for 30 minutes or so. I remember MY first experience with "fastpass". I was at MGM, in line for Rock n Roller Coaster, with no clue (I had an AP at the time, so no reason for a guidemap), and I just started seeing these people just walk by, and walk by, and walk by...and I was thinking "wow, they must be on a special tour group or something"...but more and more came (and this was early in the experiment, so there were far FEWER than nowadays)...and I did, honestly, start to get annoyed. But soon after, I learned about it and figured out how to do it myself.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost That was kind of my point, Mr. X...those that have had the benefit of experience think it is the end all. Those that do not know the routine, and I'm not sure why we should think that they should, are taken by unpleasant surprise. Some never do get educated on it and therefore are the ones I am referring too. I don't think Disney should expect people to "study" for their vacation. I have traveled the world and never once did I think it necessary to "cram" for the trip. I was going to experience the place not read about it. I know that this is how I do it and I am probably not the only one that does it that way. If I didn't feel the need to know everything about a country, I visited, ahead of time, why on earth would I think it necessary when going to a theme park. But alas, we have beat this subject to death and I am sure that none of us has managed to change anyones mind, so I for one am going to let it rest for now. I'm sure it will turn up again and then I can reactivate my "vote no" button one more time.
Originally Posted By Mr X lol...as for your comments Goof...do you think that severely limiting the number of fastpasses might help ease the pain? I, for one, think this sounds like a neat idea. I DO understand your points, by the way...but I think that in general folks DO "study up" a bit on the way the parks work (look at how many "how to" guides there are, lots more than for any given country you might read up on!)... And like I said, I didn't pick up a map cause I was a LOCAL...I think most folks do take a map, and it's really easy enough to read about fastpass and figure it out. I'll "take a rest" now too...I've said what I feel on the subject. Seriously, though, WED's idea is a real good one I think (are you listening, Disney? we KNOW you are! ;O).
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>I think that in general folks DO "study up" a bit on the way the parks work (look at how many "how to" guides there are, lots more than for any given country you might read up on!)...<< Mr. X, IMHO that only applies to Japanese guests, whichis why they are so savy and simply donot leave room for error when visiting TDR, especially on very crowded days. Why do you think they all run to the same attraction for FPs when the gates open?? But here? The majority of guests at WDW do not have a clue about how to tackle the parks or how to best use their time and services offered. Only those who are anal enough to poor thru some 3rd party book will have an idea of what to do and how to do it once they get there. >>TDLFAN -- What happens when not enough people volunteer to self-bump? Just what do they do with the passenger who has a reservation, but can't get on the plane?<< There is always a 10-15% no-show factor on overbooked flights which is why all airlines overbook seat capacity. I personally have not witnessed an overbooking situation that required forced bump-offs any particular flight I have been on, simply because enough freeloader volunteers are always there to accept the perks that are given if you give up your seat. However, if you are booked on an oversold flight, and check in for the flight past the time when all seats have been assigned, you will have to stand by in case any volunteers offer to give up their seats. The gate agents will do anything possible to get volunteers to give up seats by offering vouchers and positive space seats on later flights, and even paying for your hotel or/and meal if giving up your seat means having to stay the night. If after all request for volunteers are exausted and no one gives up their seat, then those who didn't get a seat will be denied boarding and rescheduled for a later flight, or offered some type of compensation package/options.. which may include hotel stay/transport on another carrier if needs be/refunding fare/rebooking thru a different city...etc etc etc. The gate agent has to attend to each passenger's particular situation and needs. Since I am not a gate agent and do not deal with these situations, I am not sure if facts such as your frequent flyer status or amount/type of fare paid plays a role in determining who get's bumped or who gets priority to board an overbooked flight after volunteers have given up seats. This situation is one of the hardest things a gate agent will have to do in their job duties as tempers may flare and frustration from bumped off customers is rampant, which is understandable. The Dept of Transportation has "denied-boarding" statistic from one month to the next in their site so for those frequent flyers who are interested, you can check up what airlines are guilty of this and which ones have the best record, etc etc..
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost One thing I wondered was...how does an airline overbook when they sell and issue seat assignments for the plane ahead of time? Does it only apply to those that booked by phone?
Originally Posted By TDLFAN Airlines authorize the oversell. If a plane has 150 seats, reservations may be authorized to sell 165 seats for that particular flight. Once the authorized sales number is reached, the flight no longer shows on the reservation system as "available for sale." As for the seat assignments... once all seats have been assigned, those customers who have purchased an oversell flight may get an indication to "get seats at the airport" or other message along those lines. If you book a flight on line and can't get an assigned seat... that's you cue to beware you have booked a flight that is overbooked. From that point on, your seat assignment depends on cancelations or at worst case scenario.. volunteers at the time of the flight. That is my understading on this matter, since I an not a reservation agent and do not know the specifics. You also have to understand that each airline may have a different set of rules and policies to deal with these situations... so you may or may not get compensated in the same way if you fly on several airlines and have to deal with such overbooking situations.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Exactly. When Disney occasionally let's VIP's in the side door to the front of the line, they don't parade them past the guests already in line. That just gets people wondering "who the heck are those people, and why do they get to bypass?" < this was not true when corporate lounges were in full swing - when we entered ones like the McDonalds lounge in Dinosaur ( then CTE ) - they actually had to break the line to walk you through --
Originally Posted By DVC_dad I fail to see HOW fastpass is unfair to ANYONE. No one has proven that on this board or any other board yet. I mean, get up, get going, get your Fastpass. I do it with 6 kids, you can't do it alone or as a couple?
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy I myself relish being on flights that are obviously oversold. It is my chance to grab up some comp tickets. Sometimes you can even score food. I always booked my WDW flights on nights which were busiest, like Friday night or Sunday night. Best chance of getting bumped and comped.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> they actually had to break the line to walk you through -- << Wow. >> I fail to see HOW fastpass is unfair to ANYONE << I have no doubt that you don't. It works for you. Be happy that it does.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy For several years in a row, I would go to WDW and get bumped. I'd get a comp flight ticket big enough that would pay for my next flight to WDW. Then I would get bumped on THAT flight, and get another one. Cool. I love this country.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN You are working the system and that makes you a freeloader. Not a good thing.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> You are working the system and that makes you a freeloader. << I take your point. But come now. You have to admit that this is a game that the airlines have set up. I thought you of all people would see the humor in this.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy "People who travel just because they think they can score comp tickets" Sounds like a Saturday Night Live sketch.
Originally Posted By danyoung >)...and I did, honestly, start to get annoyed. But soon after, I learned about it and figured out how to do it myself.< I said this exact thing on another thread. You might be peeved the first time, but you'd sure want to ask a CM about it, and learn quickly how to take advantage of the system. As to the overbooking of flights, it's been my experience that the airlines just keep increasing the benefit for those who are willing to be bumped. They may start at a $200 travel voucher. If that doesn't work they raise it to $300, then $400, then first class upgrades, etc. I was booked on a flight once where I didn't want to be bumped. But once the flight voucher got up to $600 with first class upgrades I jumped at it. Made the next trip to WDW really really nice (and FREE!).
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>You have to admit that this is a game that the airlines have set up.<< Oh I admit it alright, but don't blame us at the bottom level.. this is management's idea of remaining competitive, and if they weren't takinig moeny from my hard-earned paycheck to cover the expenses of freeloading, then I'd be happy for you too. But you go into business to make business.. and by giving the product away, you loose. If the gains from frequent flyer spending were higher than those given out on perks, then I would be happy but that doesn't appear to be the case.
