Originally Posted By Tikiduck Yes, when I think of dueling in America my first thoughts always go to that famous fight between Sherm Berkowitz and Bob Shnieder.
Originally Posted By smd4 >>Do they? I bet most Americans don't.<< I agree. When I think of "dueling," I do not think of a specific duel.
Originally Posted By berol "Except that the faces look nothing like them and the clothes are the wrong period too." It only takes a little imagination to see a possibility that Burr-Hamilton came up and the idea migrated into duels in general.
Originally Posted By smd4 >>It only takes a little imagination to see a possibility that Burr-Hamilton came up and the idea migrated into duels in general.<< It takes even less imagination--and a shave by Occam's Razor--to see that a general duel was more than likely envisioned and portrayed, and that people who know about the Hamilton-Burr duel think of that when they see the tableau.
Originally Posted By berol That's an exaggeration, but closer to accurate than everyone supposedly knowing that it's based upon B-H.
Originally Posted By smd4 Clearly the "story" is that both these gentlemen died in the duel, and now spend eternity facing each other at 20 paces in a Sysiphusian duel--pure Victorian gothic horror. Burr and Hamilton, with their 18th century tricorn hats, probably played little (and I argue no) role in the concept of the scene. There simply is no connection whatsoever, except for the use of dueling pistols.
Originally Posted By MikeHunt I think there are at least 3 of you, base on your responses, who do not understand what "loose portrayal" really means. Your collective responses indicate that you think it means a specific representation of the subjects but without direct reference or identification. And you would be quite wrong too. Here is an example of a "Loose portrayal" : Dirk Diggler in the movie Boogie Nights vs porn actor John Holms .
Originally Posted By berol "There simply is no connection whatsoever, except for the use of dueling pistols." It isn't possible to know what led to the final product just by looking at it. Anything that did whose influence is still there in some way is connected to it. "probably played little (and I argue no) role in the concept of the scene" That's my view.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Given that there has been absolutely no indication that the portraits are supposed to be any specific individuals (similar to the countless other ghosts in the ride and all those pirates next door), I can't see how anybody is supposed to think that they're "loosely based" on anything other than the simple concept of a duel The only AA ride in DL that includes some figures based on real historical people is it's a small world, which includes Cleopatra and Queen Liliuokalani among others. Plenty of other attractions have scenes that are loosely inspired by historical events/locations (Pirates, Rivers of America, Railroad), but there's nothing to suggest that any specific personalities of the past are supposed to be represented (yes, I realize that Lincoln is on Main Street, but for convenience I'm just talking about actual rides here)
Originally Posted By berol Here's how to imagine it. "What about a dual like H-B?" "A duel is a good idea, but I don't want people being reminded of a real-life killing in my park. Make it very different." Here's how I wish this conversation went. "Those 2 may not be specifically marketed as Burr and Hamilton but we all know that is what is loosely portrayed." "'We all know?!' Never heard that before!" "ditto" "ditto"... "Since this is only duel that Americans as whole know about I think the designers must have had Burr and Hamilton on their minds for that scene." "Duels were all over books/movies back then." "You are wise and brilliant. Let's get a churro." "Popcorn!" "CHURRO!" "POPCORN!!!!"
Originally Posted By Dabob2 " It only takes a little imagination to see a possibility that Burr-Hamilton came up and the idea migrated into duels in general." To me, it's hard to imagine them even discussing it seriously as an idea, when anyone who knows anything about the dual would know that one of them died in New Jersey, and the other one lived on. So why wouldn't even have come up when they're talking about creating a haunted house in New Orleans? Someone might have said "how about duelling portraits? ". Someone else might have said "oh like Hamilton and Burr?" And then someone would have said "Sordina, but not them. "That's about as close as I can think it would possibly come.
Originally Posted By berol That's pretty close to what Mike is saying. Combine the first 2 lines and it's there.
Originally Posted By smd4 >>I think there are at least 3 of you, base on your responses, who do not understand what "loose portrayal" really means.<< I understand "loose portrayal." I don't even think it's a loose portrayal, any more than the ballroom scene is a loose portrayal of a dance Walt may have hosted for the Penthouse Club.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <That's pretty close to what Mike is saying. Combine the first 2 lines and it's there.> Except that "influenced by" or "loose portrayal" in this case is so loose as to be meaningless. I'm with smd4.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 And #32 shows the perils of not checking "voice recognition" before pressing "post."
Originally Posted By phruby Fixed that for you. Someone might have said "how about dueling portraits? ". Someone else might have said "oh like Hamilton and Burr?" And then someone would have said "Who?" Other someone said, "They had a famous duel a long time ago. Don't you remember your history class?" Other guy, "I can barely remember last week! This is the 60's man!"
Originally Posted By smd4 I think people tend to read WAY more into things at Disneyland than necessary. I remember a year or two ago on MiceChat, someone posted about a stoneware jar they saw on Splash Mtn. that had a blue five-pointed star in a circle. "PENTAGRAM! IMAGINEERS ARE DEVIL WORSHIPPERS!!" rose the chorus. The truth was it was just the logo for the Star Stoneware Co. of Crooksville, Ohio. Seriously...sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And sometimes a duel is just a duel.
