Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>The abortion issue seems like such a small, small piece of the entire health care debate. I feel that conservatives who focus on this are only trying to rile up their base.<< I agree somewhat, but for some folks, this is their big issue. (Nevermind that when the GOP ran the show, not a thing was done about abortions after using the issue as reason numero uno why they needed to "take back Washington") I just hope that by meeting in the middle on this issue (should that actually happen) would take a big stumbling block for health care reform out of the picture. Then all the folks who value human life like they say they do can join along with those fighting to get health care insurance for every American human life. That's being truly pro-life in every way.
Originally Posted By mele 2oony, in a lot of cases, forcing a woman to carry a baby she wanted to abort can be dangerous. She might try to abort the baby herself, she might drink and do drugs and have a baby who is severely damaged physically and mentally (which we'll pay for). Or, sometimes even the worst human being in the world will see their baby and want to keep it. Sometimes that's good, sometimes they keep the baby and torture it. It happens every day. People who make the choice to have their babies and then abuse them to death. And, not all women who would be forced to have their baby are going to make it through the pregnancy w/o problems (which, we might also pay for). There are health issues, both mental and physical that could be an issue. It's just not cut and dry. I just don't see how forcing someone to carry a baby they don't want is the right decision. I know this isn't a debate about abortion being legal/illegal but about who pays for what but, sadly, I think you are giving this segment of the population a lot of credit they may not deserve.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << I know too many people who desperately want to adopt children, and it is an expensive and exhausting process, and many people who would be great parents eventually give up. I have to believe that in this country that children who are unwanted by a birth parent would be able to find a loving, welcoming home out there. >> I know too many people who only want to adopt certain kinds of children. There are plenty of children living in foster homes throughout the country that are "unwanted." If it really were a matter of an excess number of parents wanting to adopt, you wouldn't have any children without parents. Yes, I understand the red tape and difficulties involved in the adoption process. I don't think this is the number one barrier to adoption, though. It's largely the desire by adoptive parents to limit their search to children that are newborn, healthy, and caucasian. That really restricts what is available. Most children put up for adoption are not white, have some sort of genetic health problem, and often don't show up in the system until they are several years old. It's admirable that you have a new nephew adopted at age 6. That's wonderful, but sadly not the norm.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I just don't see how forcing someone to carry a baby they don't want is the right decision.<< But I'm not saying that. I am saying keep it safe and legal but not paid for by taxpayers. Yes, I know, this would be a hardship on some. But I am sure, with the cost of an abortion fairly cheap, there are much more options that doing something crazy. >>I think you are giving this segment of the population a lot of credit they may not deserve.<< I know there are plenty of very irresponsible people out there. I know a huge portion of them, given the choice between right and wrong will take whatever is easiest. I am hoping we can make the adoption process easier, and that we can make big strides in reducing the number of abortions/unwanted pregnancies to begin with through education, a shift in attitudes where necessary to make that happen.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I know too many people who only want to adopt certain kinds of children. There are plenty of children living in foster homes throughout the country that are "unwanted."<< Indeed. My new nephew is one of those cases, will take some special care, patience and understanding, his background is a nightmare. But already, just having a place to call home and people to call family is making an impact. He is in a totally supportive, loving environment now. But yes, your points are well taken, Sport Goofy.
Originally Posted By mele <<But I'm not saying that. I am saying keep it safe and legal but not paid for by taxpayers.>> Yes, and I noted that this was was your point. In this issue, I just don't think there is a right answer. Again, I don't want to pay for abortions but if our health care system IS run by the government then allowing/not allowing abortions is something that has to be discussed. And considering the fact that even if we don't pay for abortions, we will be paying for the impending child in a variety of ways, it is also something that should be discussed. I believe in a woman's right to choose for a variety of reasons. When I was pregnant with my son, I had some VERY scary experiences with people who wanted my child. They didn't really want to help me and they didn't want to discuss ways that I could keep my child. (Even though they pretended that was what they were there to do. Many of these were religious organizations.) One place I looked at staying once I couldn't work told me that I would not be allowed to contact family members for the first 30 days. It was pretty insane and incredibly scary. No one would talk to me about what I could do after my child was born. They didn't want to hear my plans. They wanted my baby.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Boy, the problems we run in to when we actually start looking in to an issue instead of just responding to the talking points!
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Yeah, can we go back to the death panel thing again? I'm against those.
Originally Posted By Sara Tonin I'm confused...we all see the evidence of other peoples mistakes, homelessness, drug and alchol addiction, carelesness in so many different ways. And we all pay for the services these people use, police and fire departments, jails, half way houses, public health, detox...but one time you forget the condom or it breaks nobody wants to help you. "Not with my tax dollars! It's all your own fault, just tough it out." I'm not promoting abortion as a method of birth control, I'm just saying that the option needs to be there and it needs to be covered by medical insurance. And even through Planed Parenthood it's not just a matter of a few hundred dollars, about 10 or 12 years ago it was 8 or 9 hundred...for most single women that's not a drop in the bucket...
Originally Posted By Sara Tonin Okay, at Planned Parenthood.com they quote a cost of $350-$900 for an abortion and they pretty much are only talking about 1st trimester procedures. So prices haven't changed much in the last few years.
Originally Posted By Princessjenn5795 You know, I understand when people feel that abortions are wrong from a religious point of view. I personally do not think I could ever get an abortion. At the same time, I am very pro-choice. In this country laws are not supposed to be made based on religious view points. If you are anti-abortion do not get an abortion. It is that simple. Everyone in America has the right to determine what they believe for themselves. They also have the right to make their own medical decisions.
Originally Posted By barboy Be careful with #153, as some of us(like me) are not "religious", "doing church" or following some faith organization's edict but yet find abortion appalling. ///If you are anti-abortion do not get an abortion. It is that simple./// Agreed--- that is why I don't want to be compelled to contribute to the practice via public money. Keep abortions legal/available but just leave me out, completely out.
Originally Posted By Princessjenn5795 Do you agree with everything your tax dollars are spent on? Unfortunately we do not get to pick and choose. I do not get to say "My tax dollars can go to schools and roads but not the wars or paying idiotic congressmen." And, as has been discussed multiple time, the current bills being discussed only include abortion coverage in cases of rape, incest, or danger to the mother. You should not oppose health insurance plans that will help save millions of lives because a few pople may be able to get abortions under the plan. Are you only pro-lif when it comes to unborn babies or are you pro-life when it comes to everyone?
Originally Posted By barboy ///Do you agree with everything your tax dollars are spent on? Unfortunately we do not get to pick and choose./// If the House of Reprehensibles passed a money bill that said all of your tax dollars go to 'barboy' and the bill traveled all the way to Chief who signed it I guess under your theory you have no standing to complain. ///the current bills being discussed only include abortion coverage in cases of rape, incest, or danger to the mother./// ---a most asinine discussion that has no chance of bearing fruit. You as well as anyone won't be able to explain this rape and incest exception because it's completely unworkable. The medical need or danger exception would work though. ///Are you only pro-lif when it comes to unborn babies or are you pro-life when it comes to everyone?/// As to aborting I'm not "pro-life" nor am I "pro-choice" as both captions(and factions for that matter) don't represent my views.
