Originally Posted By Mr X **Eisner...became obsessed with the bottom line and short term gains instead of long term shareholder value** If anything, it's the shareholders that forced Eisner (if true) into a short term mindset. Nowadays, if a company doesn't perform "THIS QUARTER", there is hell to pay from the shareholders. And that includes the banks and institutions. There is always another "high growth" company to move onto if this or that doesn't work out... If ANYTHING, Eisner was a master of the "good balance" between shareholder value and forward looking vision. He was a true master, and saved the company, as Jon said. Maybe he stayed too long, I dunno. BUT, if you want to talk "shareholder value", guess what? The stock has been crappy since he left. Did you know that? We'll see what the future holds, but you are making a LOT of assumptions here. And, frankly, I'll take Jonvn's advice about stockholders and what they look for way before I listen to your take.
Originally Posted By jonvn "[Eisner] did a marvelous job for almost 10 years" Right at that time, they bought ABC, and the company became way way larger than it was before. But he tried to run it as a company that was as small as it was before, and he had also at the same time lost his chief aide. It kind of got away from him. He still had the same ideals, but there was no humanly possible way to operate it in the manner he had before, and had been so successful at. But he still did a very good job until the end.
Originally Posted By jonvn "I don't like Jonvn's brand of propoganda " Whose brand of propaganda do you like? Does that brand have a more colorful package on it? Maybe I should get my marketing team to work on my brand loyalty factors so more people will like my brand. If you were born in 1988, you simply have no idea how Disney operated before Eisner came along at all. None. You don't know what they offered, or what the experience was in the parks. I do. You don't. It's that simple. Furthermore, you don't know what went behind the scenes at the higher echelons of Disney, and no one else you talk to does, either. Everyone takes a guess at it, but no one here really knows. So please don't try and tell us what happened, because you don't know, and your comments on the matter are utterly without any merit. They aren't the truth, they aren't anything. Just crapola you've read on the internet. "This led to the second half of Eisners tenure, also known as The Dark Ages. " The second half of his tenure, starting in 1994 or so, would put you at 6 years old. So, from the ages of 6 to 16, that was the dark ages. I can not begin to tell you how silly that is. Please. You're 19. You don't have any idea of how the business world works. If you want to proclaim how the inner machinations of a multi-national conglomerate works, at least get a job at a fast food stand first.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Maybe he stayed too long, I dunno." He did allright to the end. What precipitted his going was Roy Disney being kicked off the board. Disney's stock went up when Iger came on board. It's been stagnant since. Disney's stock has very closely matched the stock of other similar companies. The fact is that very little has changed. Pixar was bought. OK, good deal. But did you notice how it took two years of searching by Pixar to not find anyone who wanted to work with them? Odd, that, don't you think? Steve Jobs has a reputation in the computer industry for saying "These are my terms, take them or we leave." That's what he tried to do at Disney, that's probably what he tried to do at the other movie companies. And they all likely just turned him down. He finally had to go back to Disney and work out a completely different deal than the one he demanded originally. But, be that as it may, that's what happened there, I think. But that was done. Now what else? Has ANYTHING else chnged? Um....no. Not really. Iger will stay in the job for a few years, and go. And then the next guy will come along, then the next. Same thing with the Disneyland president job, and the execs at WDW. Just some guys trying to do their job. Names and faces change, but it really is unimportant. I think tracking people who are basically not public figures, such as the head of Disneyland is rather inappropriate. They are all mid level managers, trying to implement policy they are given. These are huge companies, and they all work the same way, or they can't function. People are people. Disney is no different than any other place. They sell a product, you like it, you buy it. You don't, you stay away. The resorts are just that. Resorts. They offer a good time for whatever time you want to spend there. It's not magic, it's a vacation. Folks need to realize that Magical Fairylands are not real, the real world operates inside of WDW like it does everywhere else, and the Disney company is a corporation that has to follow the rules of the business world.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Folks need to realize that Magical Fairylands are not real, the real world operates inside of WDW like it does everywhere else, and the Disney company is a corporation that has to follow the rules of the business world. >> And they probably need to also realize that it has been that way for over 80 years.
Originally Posted By jonvn Yes. Walt liked to tell stories, make it so that his company was always the underdog, always fighting the big guys and bankers. That somehow he was this kindly uncle and that things didn't work at his company the way they did elsewhere. It's all stories, folks. STORIES. Walt Disney did not instantly have the subs built while Roy was out of town. It wasn't even Walt's idea to build the park as big as it ended up as. That was Roy's idea, and they commissioned a long and dull survey to figure where to best put it, and how big it should be, and what its profit potentials were. He wasn't a kindly uncle, he was a viciously hard taskmaster. Disneyland wasn't really even considered an underdog. People didn't think it was going to fail. When Disney announced they wanted corporate partners, they had people lining up to give them money. Yes, Walt sold his home, and borrowed money on his life insurance, but then that made him a full 1/3 owner of Disneyland, distinct and separate from the Walt Disney company. He owned a third, the company owned a third, ABC owned a third. He didn't pawn his life insurance and give it to the company, he did it and became an owner. All this talk of bankers and such, yet if it were not for the Bank of America, continually funding Walt Disney and his company, you would never have heard of him. He had an incredible relationship with AP Giannini. Know what else? He was cheap. If you went over budget on a project at his studio, he'd can your behind fast. He knew what money was, and that people needed to stay on budget and within financial constraints. Sure, he had personal projects that had money spent on them, because he ran the place and he could pick and choose new areas to invest in. But if you were on something and you spent a penny more than you should, you were in trouble. He had his own holding company, Retlaw, which owned the trains and monorail in the park. At the time of his death, he didn't even have a title at the company. He was a contractor, and in arguments with the company, he threatened to go to another studio if he didn't get the deal he wanted. WHen he was building epcot, he was considering selling off the whole place to GE. Roy, after Walt Disney's death, was in talks to sell to Westinghouse. It's a COMPANY. Stocks, debt, shareholders. They make a nice product, mostly, but there is no such thing as magic, and if you're over 12 and think there is, you've got to grab a clue. Enjoy what they are SELLING you or not, but to think it's anything more than it is, is a ticket to disappointment. I think this may be why so many people are not happy with stuff they do. They think it's all supposed to be this magical fairyland, and it can't possibly be that. It's fun place, but it's just a resort with theme parks. I go there, I like them, but I'm not 5, and I know that large mouse in the tuxedo is actually a person in a costume and is not really a cartoon character come to life.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 ^^^Wow. There are stockholders, and then there are STOCKHOLDERS. I only have 180 shares, not a threat to anyone or to their job. You're blaming stockholders in part, but I wonder what % of the BIG stockholders are also Disney employees or on the board. They're making money for themselves, not for us little guys. I bought the stock because it was Disney, not for the putrid annual dividend.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << I bought the stock because it was Disney, not for the putrid annual dividend. >> Nobody buys the stock for the dividend. However, most institutional investors expect a return on their investment in the form of stock price appreciation. If the company is not growing, investors will bail out and look for alternatives -- many Wall Street investors were clamoring for Disney to be bought out by a dot com in the late '90s. There were many overtures being made for Disney by the likes of AOL and Yahoo!. Thankfully, Disney did not get subjected to the same disaster as Time Warner and had someone at the helm who understood the importance of keeping all of the Disney businesses intact.
Originally Posted By AladdinAZ To LP Adminstrators, It is very frustrating to see the way Laughing Place continues to Sanction and support denegrading other web sites as well as personal attacks on individuals running those sights. Certain lines have been crossed over and over again by indidual posters here. The loose handed way people are permitted by your moderators promotes further attacks by other members at this site. And it certainly doesn't promote good will among Disney web sites either, it does just the opposite. I was hoping that after a certain period of time, you would have cracked down on these things, and really it's just an individual or two that constantly persist on these personal attacks. Of course, you could easily stop these attacks in several ways ~ Just don't allow discussions about other disney websites at all, get out the red moderator pen, or get rid of the individuals who continue to make LP a place where attacks are "justified" by their own ludicrous sense of "logic". Once in a while I looked back to see if there is some sort of welcoming spirit, and ironically I saw some of it in what Spiritof 74 said, but It gets lost in the wrestling match that is instigated and perpetuated by someone else ~ a do or die type that quite frankly I wish would rather die from LP.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 >>You can go ahead and assume a bunch of conspiracy theories of you want (keep in mind, you have NO idea what actually went on and you never will...please stop with stupid ignorant comments like "Eisner got greedy", and "Frank Wells who mediated the big egos", and anything else that you could not have any POSSIBLE idea were true or not except for lame internet rumor), but dude...you're still a young guy, obviously (I visited Epcot for the first time around the time you were BORN), and you're pretty clueless and just spouting off stuff you've read from Al Lutz or other blowhards on the internet.<< I read the book "Disney War" and was a member of SaveDisney I know whats goin on!
Originally Posted By Skellington88 >>The second half of his tenure, starting in 1994 or so, would put you at 6 years old. So, from the ages of 6 to 16, that was the dark ages. I can not begin to tell you how silly that is. << I was 10 years old man but things didnt really get bad untill 1996/7...I remember my first big Disney disappointments were New Tomorrowland in 1998 and Innoventions in 1994.
Originally Posted By kennect Spirit, Please accept my apology for even stepping in here, it was a complete waste of effort and time on my part....Your comment that I referred to was, I am sure, made in jest...Regardless it was still made...
Originally Posted By Mr X **I remember my first big Disney disappointments were New Tomorrowland in 1998 and Innoventions in 1994.** Along with having to take your cousin to the prom. <--rolls eyes. So yeah, you read a book and joined a club...yup, obviously you know everything then. <--rolls eyes again.
Originally Posted By Mr X **To LP Adminstrators, It is very frustrating to see the way Laughing Place continues to Sanction and support denegrading other web sites as well as personal attacks on individuals running those sights.** The guy in question is a real scumbag, not to mention a plagerist. I don't see any problem in attacking him at all.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<I read the book "Disney War" and was a member of SaveDisney I know whats goin on!>> You should see the show about a flying saucer crashing in the desert and the alien bodies the military recovered. It's a government cover-up, I tell ya!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <There are stockholders, and then there are STOCKHOLDERS. I only have 180 shares, not a threat to anyone or to their job. You're blaming stockholders in part, but I wonder what % of the BIG stockholders are also Disney employees or on the board. They're making money for themselves, not for us little guys. I bought the stock because it was Disney, not for the putrid annual dividend.< one of the biggest blocks of stockholders are other companies who have their pension funds tied to certain stocks or groups of stocks - that is where a lot of the pressure to get rid of Eisner came from. Returns had been bad for a while - and some of the purchases and initial direction of things like go.com were not viewed favorably.
Originally Posted By jonvn "personal attacks on individuals running those sights" Since they decided to launch personal attacks on everyone who didn't agree with them, I think it's more than fair game.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<Folks need to realize that Magical Fairylands are not real, the real world operates inside of WDW like it does everywhere else, and the Disney company is a corporation that has to follow the rules of the business world.>> jonvn, stop talking to us like we're three. We realize that Disney is a company. I realize that Disney is a company. When people say "magical fairyland", they don't mean it in a sincere sense. Get the mud out of your ears and listen and stop correcting us like children. You think you get annoyed easily? Honey, you're annoying the ever loving bejeezus out of me right now.
