Originally Posted By jonvn "you lied in regard to the type of character Mr. Lutz has" Ah, yes, that's right, you're nuts. So you have pointed out nothing. Thanks. Professional jealousy. Yes, well, this is where you are also off on planet Z. This isn't a profession or even a competition. I'm not trying to make a buck off of chumps on the net, and I'm not interested in doing so. Still reading, DAR? Got the picture now? These people are whack jobs, and if you say something bad about Al, oh you're in their sites....
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Oooooh, now we KNOW we scored a point! All that heated emotion you just responded with instead of a choherent reply. See what WE mean, DAR? When he acts like this, it's impossible to reason with him. He does much better over in World Events. But when it comes to speaking of Mr. Lutz, he's obssessed to the point where his responses are irrational. ORGOCH: I'd say THAT's what's pretty 'nuts'!!! Makes dumb ol' Orwen look smart fer a change!!
Originally Posted By jonvn No heated emotion. You're just saying stupid things, and you called me a liar and can't point out anything at all. So, fine. You're nuts. Keep running around throwing accusations you can't back up. Lie some more, why don't you? Toss some more personal attacks that are unprovoked. It's always an endearing trait of those who are Al's buddy.
Originally Posted By jonvn I'm glad, though, you did let slip you know him personally. That explains oh so much... Ta ta.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << responses are irrational >> I'm scratching my head and wondering how responses made by a grown man pretending to be three imaginary female witches can be rational?
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Yes, it does. It means we have a personal opinion of someone we know and can't be led astray by all YOUR false accusasions. And you haven't managed to prove a single thing you have to say against him. All you've done is show how pathetic a person can get whenever they stoop as low as you have in an attempt to indulge in character assassination. You need a much more positive outlook, duckling!
Originally Posted By RoadTrip The witches seem to have absolutely no problem criticizing anyone that doesn't agree with The Spirit. Yet they seem to expect that others should not be critical of those they disagree with. I guess it all depends on whose ox is being gored. Or bushed, as the case may be. I’ve certainly disagreed with jonvn at times, but I don’t attribute his opinions to some nefarious hidden motive. ;-)
Originally Posted By jonvn Really. What's going on here is just what I said. I stated my opinion, and this person decides to start flinging what basically amounts to lies in my direction. When asked to show what they were they point out my opinion as a lie. Well, of course. So they don't have a darned thing to show for their little comment about me. They don't ever do. As I said, these people are just not very smart. Full of anger and hostility and viciousness towards anyone not in their little camp or being nice enough to their leader, but that's about it. They generally manage to bully other people around, but I just don't care what they say about me, because it's just so laughable how weak minded these people are.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORWEN: Sport Goofy, you're missing the point and trying to confuse the issue. First of all, we're not pretending to be anyone other than ourselves. And anyone who supports somebody as mean spirited as jonvn needs to get a better role model. Sort of like Pinocchio needed Jiminey Cricket. Just let your conscience be your guide--not jonvn...
Originally Posted By jonvn "YOUR false accusasions" Yes, my false accusations. Of which you can produce none of. Go have a party with your buddy. You can all sit and plan your next crusade of whom to fire at Disney. "you haven't managed to prove a single thing you have to say against him" I'm sorry, but I am not really all that interested in putting Al on trial. Someone asked about him, I gave him an answer, and you're proving absolutely everything I said. Thanks for that!
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Well, Road Trip, since you brought up the Spirit, yes, we DO support him, as well. And we're proud to do so. So many who criticize him don't seem to really be listening to him. Whenever he is treated like an Underdog, you can bet we'll support him. You should be so lucky, yourself!
Originally Posted By jonvn One last thing, if Al thinks I'm saying bad things about him, he can more than contact me and we can talk it over. I've sent him email about two or three times now. But he doesn't care, and I don't see a reason for him to. But hey, you go on and get mad at me because of something I said about a third party. Yes, that's very reasonable behavior.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Actually, you're someone to feel sorry for because you've been blinded by your own dislike--or possible hatred--of the man. If someone treated us the way you treat him, is it really any wonder he doesn't bother responding to you? It's impossible to reason with some inviduals out there and you are one of them. You're certainly not all bad, though, dear. You have your good points too. We've been impressed by your comments over at World Events and you even have a sense of humor which isn't displayed nearly often enough.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<ORDDU: Well, Road Trip, since you brought up the Spirit, yes, we DO support him, as well. And we're proud to do so. So many who criticize him don't seem to really be listening to him.>> I think the Spirit is a fine guy too. A little over the edge at times. Suffering from tunnel vision every once and a while. But overall I think his comments are both informed and fair. BUT... my point was that you feel it is perfectly justified to criticize people who don't agree with the Spirit. Why is it so terrible for jonvn to criticize someone that he does not agree with?
Originally Posted By jonvn You people are like puppets, you know? I'm not blinded. I am extremely open minded. This is why I sent Al notes. "If someone treated us the way you treat him, is it really any wonder he doesn't bother responding to you" No, it's not, as I said. But you know what, how he treats other people isn't that nice, either. Not that it's my business what he does, but I will have an opinion on it. He's a semi-public figure. He says things that are controversial. I rather doubt that I am hurting his feelings somehow. And if I am, he can stinking stand up for himself and tell me. "It's impossible to reason with some inviduals out there and you are one of them." It is not at all impossible to reason with me. But you need to give me cause to change my viewpoint. I don't change my viewpoint because someone calls me names. That merely cements my opinion further, unfortunately. You have to come at me with really solid reasons, and for that, I will change my opinion. Otherwise, I don't see why I should change my opinion. It's not just Al, this is how I am on everything. You tell me why I should change, and I will consider it. I also don't bear grudges, honestly. SO after this, if you want to be nice to me, I simply will. I really don't have a problem with you other than your constant unprovoked attacks on me personally. That's not what I do to other people on here at all. If you engage me in name calling, I might simply tell you what I think of your behavior, though. There is simply no reason for you to be saying the things you are about me, at all. You don't like my opinion? That's fine, you don't have to. That is not a reason for you to go off and behave as you have towards me, or anyone else. It's not a decent way to behave, and you should be old enough to know that without me having to tell you. The thing is what happened a long time ago is very much water under the bridge, as long as people don't want to dredge it up and ask me about it. But if Al, or someone else, engages in behavior I find very distasteful, then I think it is perfectly within my rights to state such a thing. Al has hurt a lot of people online with things he has done, and has made a lot of enemies. You don't do that by being a harbinger of sweetness and light. So I have my opinion. You have yours. If he wants to change things, that's his business, and not yours. All sorts of people have different opinions on all sorts of things and that is going to include your friends if they have made themselves into public figures.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: In defending Spirit, yes, we DO criticize those who have, first, criticized HIM--because some ducklings out there seem to deserve it. But at least when we do so, we do it in a way that is indirect--as sort of 'if the shoe fits, wear it' sort of way. We take no pleasure in going after someone directly--the way certain others seem to do. It often seems that Spirit is attacked by those who are unfair to him. Now, if they merely disagree with him, that's different. Everyone has the right to disagree. My sisters and I don't always agree with Mr. Lutz or the Spirit, either. But flying off the handle towards them isn't going to solve anything or get a point across, either. ORWEN: Everyone here deserves to be heard. I just wish we could learn how to disagree agreeably. ORDDU: Not that we're always the best example to follow. A certain little sister witch doesn't always set a very good example. We apologize if she or we have offended anyone here within the Laughing Place pond.
Originally Posted By Mr X **I rather doubt that I am hurting his feelings somehow** On the contrary, I'd wager he regards it as "free publicity". And in his little corner of the little tiny Disney corner of the internet, that's probably true.
Originally Posted By jonvn Yes, I think it is. Look at all the awareness I'm giving him. More people probably know through he is via me than in any other way. I don't care. I state what I feel, and that's it.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>I just want to say that after that post DanLOVESNikki!<< Danno, do yourself a favor and get off the PC and get yourself some loving. Obviously, you need it.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I think the Spirit is a fine guy too. A little over the edge at times. Suffering from tunnel vision every once and a while. But overall I think his comments are both informed and fair.>> I guess that was a compliment? ;-) <<BUT... my point was that you feel it is perfectly justified to criticize people who don't agree with the Spirit. Why is it so terrible for jonvn to criticize someone that he does not agree with?>> I happen to respect a lot of what Jon says. But he is over the top in his criticism of Al because they have a history. In the last week, I would imagine he has posted well over 100 (maybe hundreds) of back-and-forth posts justifying his Al-bashing, while accusing anyone who says anything good about the man of being mindless minions. Well, Al's reporting over the past two years has been incredibly on. The 'real' reporters who cover Disney for the LA Times and OC Register should have that kind of track record. But instead of discussing what Al writes, Jon chooses to wallow in the muck of attacking Lutz. And then some of Lutz's supporters defend the man and it goes on and on and on. I'm all for free speech. Even when I'm the target of things that ostensibly are against Community Standards. But you must wonder why it is Jon is allowed to keep attacking Al personally here. If I attacked some Disney exec or other Internet Disney personality here like he attacks Al, do you really think that would stand? I think it's a shame because Jon has so much to offer with his other opinions. But again, how many rip posts on Al are considered OK before a moderator at least suggests that he keep the discussion on what Al has written and not what a scumbag he believes the man to be (and he may well be, I don't know him.) I just know there are some people who work for Disney that are scumbags who I'd love to rip and put personal info out on and don't. But I guess it's just cool to keep on keeping on since it's Al. Weird.
