Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>But apparently, at least some of his fans enjoy that snippy stuff and leap to his defense whenever anyone dares to have a different opinion, so what can you do?<< Absolutely NOTHING, which is the point I am trying to make, and the reason why this particular thread has gone on for a ridiculous amount of time. I mean, jump the shark. You are entitled to your opinion; Al is entitled to his opinion and every one is entitled to their opinions.. and in the end, no one has accomplished anything here.
Originally Posted By jonvn "I suggest you find the reason why you have been banned from so many fan sites in the past" The only place I'm banned is miceage, and one other that is run by Al's little friends (who left MousePlanet after Al...left). I'm have been a contributor and founder of one site, work at another, and really, your pathetic little attempt at smearing me is one more ignorant jab, by a sad little group of haters. "here you are again because no one likes you." Oh boo hoo hoo. Are you older than 7? Do you realize how childish you act and sound? You people need to realize this isn't elementary school, and your behavior as a grammar school drop out does not do you much of a service.are sickening. Oh no! No one likes me! I'm weeping! Jeebus. How pathetically low can a group of people sink? It's like a tag team, too. One drops out, the next one pops up. Same old playbook, year after year. It makes me sad for the human race.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Absolutely NOTHING" Which is what you are bringing to this discussion. But this is fun. Tell us more how we all suck, and are paid disney employees because we say negative things about Al. The rank level of base simplicity is truly offensive.
Originally Posted By jonvn "You are entitled to your opinion; Al is entitled to his opinion and every one is entitled to their opinions.. " But apparently only he is allowed to express his, and the rest of us have to shut up and or listen to people like you insult us for disagreeing, is that the plan?
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>The only place I'm banned is miceage, and one other that is run by Al's little friends (who left MousePlanet after Al...left).<< Say no more. Now we know where you are coming from. But that doesn't change the fact that many don't like you, just like Al. So both of you are in good company. And NO, I don't bring anything into this topic because frankly... there is nothing to discuss here, so move along...
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Well after 300 some odd posts I think I have the gist of it now. And I could care less about Al Lutz - no more than Ann Coulter or Michael Moore so I can tick everyone off on all sides of any discussion - because this appears to belong more in world events that WDW General. I've learned more about some posters than I knew after 4 years here -- and almost 10,000 posts ( yeah, maybe I need to get a life too ) What I find truly amazing, is that somehow this guy Al upsets some posters enough to basically say he has no right to blanket criticize people for a set of beliefs. Yet some of these same posters are those who blanket criticize anyone who follows a religion to be chasers of fairy tales, supporters of child molestation, and similar blanket condemnations. Also other topics attacked with the same conviction - Just how does that work ? Can't have ti both ways - just because this is a Disney topic ( sort of) compared to a W/E topic doesn't make it different to me. I just got to the point where although I still defend many things, I felt like - OK they are entitled to their opinions too..even if I find them condescending and at times as childish as any response here. On some other topics I actually agree with them. But then along comes this tirade and the same behavior suddenly is not tolerated. Now I am confused once more..either it is OK to make those kinds of comments or it isn't - but one does not get exclusivity to be able to do it. And no one can accuse me of being an Al Lutz minion - as I rarely have read his stuff, wouldn't know him if he was sitting next to me ( whereas a lot of people here seem to know him very well ) - I look at anything from a person like him as his opinion. I don't find any need to either worship him or hate him - if I agree with something he says great, if not, who cares ? I can blow off his opinion just like anyone else's - this just seems to be a whose is bigger type of review of Disney blog sites - by some who I thought were just passers thru like me, and it turns out there is a lot of history being unearthed. If I don't like what Al Lutz - or Kevin Yee or any others have to say - or really if I think they're off base ( more accurate) I stop reading it, really pretty simple as I see it. After a while if someone is off base enough - be it a newscaster - a writer - a certain TV channel, it gets taken out of my rotation so to speak. And since I'm likely to get ripped anyway -- I see nothing here that Spirit has posted that comes close to some of the hatchet jobs by some on the attack. Does he cross the line sometimes - sure - don't we all ( and I'm likely in no man's land right now too ) - but very rarely if ever with the viciousness I have seen from others on some topics. And no he is not a personal friend of mine - but yes I consider him an on line pal ( if there is such a thing ) - and have a lot of respect for his opinions. Still doesn't mean we don't butt heads on some topics ( DVC ) occasionally. But unless there are other vast underlying histories I am aware of, the personal nature of the attacks in this thread I think have gone way over the line. OK- I've rambled long enough and likely will be whacked for some of what I said - but just like anyone else here, these were my opinions and I am entitled to them.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 For those who don't want to read my whole diatribe... summing it up: Al Lutz - who cares ? We've got 8 million jobs offshored in 6 years, mortgage industry and housing market is serious trouble, Iran about to become a nuclear power in the next few years, two political parties that give a rat's behind about you and I -- and some guy named Al Lutz's comments on what he feels about Disney visitors can make anyone this angry -- yikes ! And I'm silly for belonging to organized religion ? It appears we've hit a religious nerve here.
Originally Posted By dshyates I like both Jon and Al. I've never actually meet either, but they are like ying/yang. No discussion about all things DL wouldn't be complete without Al saying 'They are gonna rip out the entrance because it sucks' and Jon saying 'Lier, they are ripping it out because they want to make the guys I have applauded for 6 years look bad. Its all Politics.'
Originally Posted By jonvn "Now we know where you are coming from" You mean you couldn't figure it out from what I have been saying? "But that doesn't change the fact that many don't like you, " I'm broken hearted. Somehow I figured I was loved by everyone. Are you really this clueless? "And NO, I don't bring anything into this topic " Except to insult people who don't go along with your buddy, apparently. Like telling me no one likes me. I mean that really just makes the case...for me.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Yet some of these same posters are those who blanket criticize anyone who follows a religion to be chasers of fairy tales, supporters of child molestation, and similar blanket condemnations. Also other topics attacked with the same conviction - Just how does that work ?" One thing I'll say for Al, as far as I know, he does not belong to an organization that enables child molesters. Heck, I'd even go so far as to say I'd rather spend time with him than with a pedophile. Yes, I'm that open minded. How you can equate anything Al does to child molestation is ridiculous. Al may be an unpleasant sort, and do things that I think are not entirely decent, but that has nothing on what goes on with these pedophile priests, and the people in the pews who support them with by continuing to go to the church that is the cause of so many child rapes. "I stop reading it, really pretty simple as I see it." This is a discussion board. People bring the subject up, it's then a subject for discussion. "And since I'm likely to get ripped anyway" Yes. Even I would not equivalence Al with child molesters. "'Lier, they are ripping it out because they want to make the guys I have applauded for 6 years look bad. Its all Politics.'" I would not. I would not spell "Liar" with an E.
Originally Posted By jonvn I'll go on defending them, too. I think they did ok, for the most part. We're all human beings, and even if DCA was the single worst thing to hit humanity since the black death, no one deserves the treatment the Disney employees got for just trying to make other people happy and entertain them. It is just over the top wrong, and this is what I really find the most difficult with Al. The need to castigate others over their hard work and other people's simple opinions.
Originally Posted By dshyates I don't agree with Als style. But I don't belive he hates Disney either. I think saying Al hate Disney because he protested the last administration is like saying someone hates America because they don't like the current administration. The last years of the Eisner Disney were pretty rough. I'm sure a lot of people put in a lot of hard work, but the leadership was ineffectual and incompetent. And thus we have a change in leadership. Capitalism does work better than democracy.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>Al Lutz - who cares?<< Thank you vbdad. That is exactly what I was trying to say a couple of pages back. As for you jonboy... No I am not that clueless since I am on to you here... and the only reason why you care to be posting here is because your butt was royally kicked out of Al's site, and this is your outlet to get back at whatever you have against him. Your little words of support of Al's over pedophilia mean nothing to me here. But you are just as critical as Al in many ways... and I am giving you a bit of your own medicine. But the day you begin to respect my position on this or even Al's..whether you disagree or not with what he has to say, is the day I will respect your right to criticize as well. But like I said before... this is F**** America, the land of the free and freedom of speech. Anyone here has the right to offer an opinion, and you don't have to agree and that's fine. We have jumped the shark here.. nothing else to discuss. You people need to get over Al's comments because they are only one man's opinions. Not law.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <"Yet some of these same posters are those who blanket criticize anyone who follows a religion to be chasers of fairy tales, supporters of child molestation, and similar blanket condemnations. Also other topics attacked with the same conviction - Just how does that work ?" One thing I'll say for Al, as far as I know, he does not belong to an organization that enables child molesters. Heck, I'd even go so far as to say I'd rather spend time with him than with a pedophile. Yes, I'm that open minded. How you can equate anything Al does to child molestation is ridiculous. Al may be an unpleasant sort, and do things that I think are not entirely decent, but that has nothing on what goes on with these pedophile priests, and the people in the pews who support them with by continuing to go to the church that is the cause of so many child rapes. "I stop reading it, really pretty simple as I see it." This is a discussion board. People bring the subject up, it's then a subject for discussion. "And since I'm likely to get ripped anyway" Yes. Even I would not equivalence Al with child molesters. "'Lier, they are ripping it out because they want to make the guys I have applauded for 6 years look bad. Its all Politics.'" I would not. I would not spell "Liar" with an E. < about what I expected except read again and you know exactly what I am talking about -- I am comparing you're blanket condemnation of every Catholic on the planet as being supporters of the behavior you mention. So try and turn it anyway you like - you continually rip people ( all people with tatoo's are morons ( and no I do not have a tatoo ) - all Christians are fairy tale believing goofs etc etc -- but that is OK because it's you making the condemnation. When it comes your way, or is on a topic you don't like it be on - then it wrong. as far as lier with an e vs and a -- quite the juvenille shot - as with no edit feature sometimes when one is typing they mistype -- but I'll save that A for you ......
Originally Posted By vbdad55 and I'll save you the spellcheck time - yes I used you're instead of your....but then I have better things to do than worry about other peoples typing skills.....
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <>>Al Lutz - who cares?<< Thank you vbdad. That is exactly what I was trying to say a couple of pages back. < yep, I got what you were going for and it is so true. Whether one likes Al or not - what's the big deal ? Just because he has a forum doesn't make his opinions any more important than yours or mine or anyone else's - they are opinions. by definition: a personal view, attitude, or appraisal. Now if he posts something about factual events etc. and they are wrong or right there are grounds to rate his accuracy. But as far as opinion pieces - which seem to be the burr in the saddle here - they are just that, opinions. Same for everyone here.
