Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Thank you for proving our point, jonvn. As long as you're the one doing the labeling, it's supposed to be perfectly fine. It's only the rest of the ducklings around here who aren't supposed to do so. Hypocrissy, thy name is jonvn.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Wow. I think this takes the LP record for a continuing grudge match. Most of the time people get over it in a day or two and let it die. Of course when there are three of you stirring the pot (we know how witches love to stir the pot... or cauldron as the case may be), I guess it takes a little longer to get past it.
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Originally Posted By jonvn "I think this takes the LP record for a continuing grudge match." The problem is that Al has his little group of tools that are on many websites. You say something critical of him, and they jump all over you. Most people are run off by them. I'm not. It's pathetic, these people are really a very stupid bunch, and are simply a scourge on the fan community. This particular one seems to enjoy pretending they are some sort of three person character from a terrible Disney film. It's basically a stupid act that was old 5 years ago. That this person thinks it is clever just goes to show how lame it is. There is no hypocrisy here. These individuals act as Al's enforcers. When I describe them as such, I'm doing it to individuals who act a certain way. That's quite a bit different than creating an entire subclass out of people who simply have a different viewpoint than me. That this person does not understand it is a further indication of their lack of brain power. Perhaps if they gave up this dumb 3 person act, they could use their grey matter to actually think logically instead. But that won't happen. Instead, we'll get these people excoriating ANYONE who says anything bad about Al Lutz. A third party, who has put himself out as a semi-public figure. Again, they can't even figure out the difference. It's simply contemptible.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 reading this thread makes me very glad I don't have a horse in this race
Originally Posted By dshyates "...as a semi-public figure." Thats the funniest thing said all day. With his minions numbering in the 20s, semi-public is humerously appropriate.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh jonvn is making personal attacks again. Why do you let him continue to post here?
Originally Posted By jonvn There is no horse. Just a bunch of people positioned at various websites that make sure that nothing critical is said about Al, that's all. You do so, you get all this crap thrown at you, because he's the leader, and you don't badmouth the leader. And, yes, unfortunately, he's a semi-public figure. He is (god knows why) quoted in papers and has a website where he speaks out and from which he denounces scores of people who don't agree with him. And when people take exception, his little minion come running and start ripping into you for doing so. These folks are running around, thinking they have some kind of power, where the only power they have is acting like thugs to others. You see it a lot, and i'm not the only one. I'm just one of the few who doesn't bend to their practices, which have gone on for quite a while. Not about to, either. Meanwhile, of course, they are the brave put upon. Martyrs to the cause of Al. Oh how terrible it is for them to hear that their boss is not thought of in glowing terms by everyone online. So terrible, they have to lash out at people in any manner or reason they can scrabble together. It's so sad for them.
Originally Posted By dshyates I can't tell you, jon, how crazy that last post sounds. Minions of Al's positioned at various websites martyring themselves to protect his reputation. It could be simply they know Al, like him, and therefore are defensive of him. And you, jon, seem to have an unhealthy obsession with Al and his readers. And do you know why papers, and other media outlets listen to him? He has a remarkable record for having real inside info. That's all, not because of his dislike for the Pressler/Harris gang. And to be honest, I believe Al was right about Pressler/Harris. They did more damage than good to the Disney reputation.
Originally Posted By danyoung >reading this thread makes me very glad I don't have a horse in this race< >There is no horse.< What do you have against similes and metaphors, jon? Every time someone uses a colloquialism like the above, you have to slam them and say that it doesn't exist. It's just a figure of speech that everyone else in the country can understand - yes, there's no real horse. We all get it. And I agree with dshyates - your rambling is getting really tiresome. You're spending much more time trying to discredit those who agree with Al than they were agreeing with him in the first place. Give it a rest, already.
Originally Posted By jonvn "It could be simply they know Al, like him, and therefore are defensive of him." It could be. On the other hand, I know what behaviors they engage in, so it's not like that. I guess "positioned" is a bit strong. "jon, seem to have an unhealthy obsession with Al and his readers." Well, perhaps that's because they act like thugs, and do their best to quash anything negative said about Al at all. Since they have targeted me, I'm going to comment on them. "He has a remarkable record for having real inside info." Not really. People remember when he's right about something, and manage to forget the times he is wrong. It's not that remarkable. "And to be honest, I believe Al was right about Pressler/Harris." To be honest, his behavior toward them was an outrage and indecent. "What do you have against similes and metaphors, jon?" Nothing. I was using the same one in saying that there is no horse to back. It's not like that. Just people who can't deal with someone being critical of Al. I understood it perfectly well. "your rambling is getting really tiresome. " You know what else is tiresome? People defending these jerks who show up to trash anyone who says something about Al. Otherwise I don't care if you find it tiresome. "Give it a rest, already." Well, then stop talking about it. When Al comes up with another post where he insults a good number of people online, I'll probably say something about that, too. And when his little tools come around to rip into me for that, I'll respond to them, too, because they should not be allowed to simply get away with acting like the Al Lutz mafia trying to bully their way through people. I won't be bullied by them. They are a disgusting bunch and a disgrace. And I for one will not be scared away from telling them so.
Originally Posted By dshyates "Not really. People remember when he's right about something, and manage to forget the times he is wrong. It's not that remarkable." He does get things wrong, like the passholders office being moved and things like that. But like it or not, he does seem to know a few people in the know. "To be honest, his behavior toward them was an outrage and indecent." I wouldn't go that far but I won't defend his tone, as it was beyond catty and snide. But I agree with his assesment that they weren't a good fit for the resort.
Originally Posted By jonvn "But like it or not, he does seem to know a few people in the know. " Yes, he has some info. He's conned someone into telling him stuff. Those people should be fired. "But I agree with his assesment that they weren't a good fit for the resort." Well, there are two sides to every concept. We don't really know the parameters with which they had to work, given Eisner, and the parameters he had to work with given shareholders. It's easy to say they did lousy work, but there might not have been a lot of choice. One thing that people don't realize is that during those years while some cosmetic issues were let to go, a lot more in park entertainment was hired in. Not much in capital expenditures was done. But other money was spent. This was changed when Ouimet came in, and the priorties were shifted, and a lot of in park things were gone, such as Lagniappe the mime. But the most telling thing of all in this is that now, Al is saying the current guy should be fired, too. Basically, every head of the park should have been fired but this one guy, and someone mentioned that he was getting snotty about Ouimet as well. I don't know if that's true. I don't know if Harriss/Pressler were all that bad or all that good. I don't know what their day to day jobs actually are, and I don't know what they were tasked to do. So it makes it rather hard for me to say what sort of job they were doing. In no way, however, is what was said about them appropriate, civil, or decent. I believe a lot of it was personal vendetta, and people just sucked it up and followed along because they were told what to believe. Because really, what does the average 14 year old disney fan know of what a mid to low level manager should or should not be doing in a major corporation such as this? They don't. Neither do they know such things as how the park was really run before. But all these people, some now in their early 20s or even 30s seem to think that they have some kind of handle on this. Meanwhile, they live in a trailer park. It's nonsense.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Actually, it had seemed that this entire matter had gone way beyond the mere bashing of Mr. Al Lutz. What it's really boiled down to is one person's persistant obsession to criticize anyone who disagrees with him versus others who decide to criticize him for being so hypocritical in the way he goes about doing so. This causes him to make even more wild accusastions, which reveal more about his character than he realizes. In any event, we've conjured up enough about jonvn in our crystal ball to see what an 'intersting' past he has and, as a result, we have no more interest in trying to communicate with such an unsavory character. It's a waste of time. There are those in Life who are so TOXIC that they live only to spread lies and create chaos wherever they go. The REAL mindless minions are those who choose to support such slanderous and abusive behaviour. The proof is in the pudding. Why else has a certain individual been banned from so many discussion boards? The fact that he has been banned so often speaks volumes. ORWEN: Good-bye jonvn! And give our regards to Fabby!!!
Originally Posted By jonvn "What it's really boiled down to " What it boils down to is your inability to let criticism of this guy go without trying to rip to pieces anyone who does it. There are no wild accusations. Just the fact that this is what you engage in, and then play the martyr. Cry me a river. "we have no more interest in trying to communicate with such an unsavory character." Right. I'll be more than happy to have you stop bothering me with your asinine comments. " live only to spread lies and " Nothing I have said is a lie. You keep saying this, and can't point out a single one. "Why else has a certain individual been banned from so many discussion boards? " Al's board, and a friend of Al's board. Right. SO many. So, again, just more disgusting behavior from you. These people just sink so low it's beyond belief. They simply resort to whatever they think they can make up to make anyone look as bad as possible, including flat out lies, such as this one. You see, I can actually point out where you are lying, and not just say it. "Good-bye jonvn! And give our regards to Fabby!!!" Just another nasty comment about other people. See, she's someone who figured your crowd out a long time ago. Used to be friends with you people. So, now she's a target too. She's not even in this conversation, but hey, drag her name into it, too. And that, folks, is what is wrong with these people, how vicious they are, how uncaring about what they say about or to others. And that is why I don't really care if other people feel it is tiresome. The behavior is ugly and has been a real damaging factor in the online disney community. They need to GO AWAY. Hopefully, this whacknut will stop posting this junk about me. I doubt it.
Originally Posted By jonvn Oh, and again, you're not bullying me off the topic. Say what you want about me, I don't care. I have had years worth of it from lowlife such as you, and a few more words from yet one more braindead nut isn't going to bother me.
Originally Posted By jkayjs OK my brain hurts. What's this thread about anymore? Wait don't tell me I really don't want to know. If this was happening in my ER I'ld be calling BHAC(Behavioral Health Assessment Crew).
Originally Posted By jonvn It's about some jerks who can't tolerate their leader being criticized. That's what it always comes down to.
Originally Posted By magnet Do what you want, but don't let your resolve be the object of manipulation. People will poke a caged lion just to see him roar.
