Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Does this mean I have to return the black hood I bought for you?>> Yes. And the gag and handcuffs too. ;-)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Thanks guys for keeping the posts on the thread up ... I think this one will go for a long, long time. Let's try for a 1,000. Any volunteers? AL LUTZ RULEZ!!!!!!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^BTW that was tongue in cheek. I don't think Al rules anything. I do enjoy reading his site, though I disagree with many things he says. I just am not obsessed with the dude.
Originally Posted By jonvn I'm not obsessed either. But apparently, I'm not allowed to say a word at all about something he says? Because what's gone on here, is I did. Then I got ripped. It went on from there. I think the basic desire here on the part of some is that I simply don't make a comment on anything he has to say, that's the goal, and it's not something I will agree to do.
Originally Posted By kennect OK, For more Al fodder...The La Times on the ninth quotes him numerous times in regards to the Small World rehab at the DLR article...Al must be a God and as a result must be perfect.....When I read the article I just sort of got the idea they had nothing else run about Disney for the day...What do I know...
Originally Posted By danyoung Spirit - >I do enjoy reading his site, though I disagree with many things he says. I just am not obsessed with the dude.< jon - >I'm not obsessed either. But apparently, I'm not allowed to say a word at all about something he says?< jon, your first post on this thread was #40, which you started out by saying - >What lutz said is just a pile of crap. You either agree with what he says or somehow there is something wrong with you and you are labeled. You are less of a person because you don't follow in lockstep with his opinions. It's disgusting. People who follow simply go along with this behavior are just as bad. It just shows once more what a petty and vindictive person he is. It's sick.< If you can't see the difference in that vitriol and what Spirit just said above, there's simply no hope for you. You're of course free to disagree with anyone you wish, as am I. However, when you put that much juice into it, it's hard to accept your criticisms as well thought out.
Originally Posted By jonvn If I were obsessed, I wouldn't have waited till post 40, I would have started the topic. What he said is a pile of crap. And yes, what I said was not phrased nicely, because the subject matter does not deserve it. And people who go along and label people like that because they don't agree with his point of view are just as bad, if not worse. At least if I said if you don't agree with me, you're a dope, that's one thing. If I said you're a dope for disagreeing with Mr. Leader, then that's really sick. And no, if by hope you expect me to just give a pass to things I think are horrible, whoever says them, then no, there is no hope for you. I will continue to post what I think, in the manner I wish to say it. I put this much "juice" into everything I write, just about. It's my style of writing. For some reason, on this one topic you seem to want me to change the way I speak. I won't.
Originally Posted By danyoung >For some reason, on this one topic you seem to want me to change the way I speak.< No, I'd love you to change the way you speak on oh so many topics, jon. Ain't gonna happen, but I can dream, can't I?
Originally Posted By jonvn You can, but you need to stop thinking it is just about Al. It's how I communicate, and it's very difficult for me to not do so. I realize I annoy people. Go read a few posts in World Events. What I'm saying here is mild in comparison.
Originally Posted By jkayjs I've got the 4 point restraints, all the happy drugs you could wish for and the psych eval is on it's way. Got any takers?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I've said this so many times, but I'll say it again: I agree with so much of what Jon says, but much of it gets lost in this hatred (and let's be blunt that's what it is) for Al. I have some issues with Al, but none of them are personal ... other than the fact he didn't answer email, but I'll live. But I disagree wholeheartedly with your point that he has poisoned the Disney fan universe by his criticism of Disney and its execs. And while the DoM label may be a bit over the top, the basic point has validity. If the great majority of Disney fans gladly accept crap, that's what we'll all get. That's simple logic. I grew to love Disney because its parks transported me to different places, times and into the story. They did it with the cleanest parks, with the best employees and customer service and with quality merchandise and food. While never cheap, I never used to feel nickel and dimed by Disney. I felt that Disney never talked down to me or to children. I never felt that 'good enough' was the Disney Standard. Sadly, much of that has changed. And when people have no problem with cartoon characters in every land, parks that are cleaner than Six Flags, crappy overpriced food and stale park offerings, they DO contribute to the whole WalMarting effect. Now maybe labeling people isn't cool, but I do understand and agree with the underlying point. Think about when you visit WDW, especially the MK, soon!
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<Now maybe labeling people isn't cool, but I do understand and agree with the underlying point.>> There are at least a few "points" to this thread, aren't there? One is that WDW has suffered a lamentable decline in standards in the past several years. After 500 posts on this thread, I don't see anyone arguing with that. Another point is that Al Lutz engages in deragotory, personal, not-very-"Disney"-like name-calling when it suits him. I don't see any of his defenders addressing this issue on this thread. Instead, they attack anyone who raises the point. In fact, another point on this thread is that anyone who dares criticize Al Lutz suffers reflexive attacks by his supporters. I think that numerous -- increasingly personal and hostile -- posts on this thread support that position.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<There are at least a few "points" to this thread, aren't there?>> YEAH!!! I pulled I-57 out of the closet! I knew I could do it! Where have you been? What have you been doing? How's life? Seen any good movies recently? What do you think of the writer's strike? Been to DL recently? C'mon ... what's new? <<One is that WDW has suffered a lamentable decline in standards in the past several years. After 500 posts on this thread, I don't see anyone arguing with that.>> I dunno ... I can't remember 95% of what was said. But there are often people who say they see no change or that WDW is better than ever etc ... I have no idea if anyone did so in this thread. <<Another point is that Al Lutz engages in deragotory, personal, not-very-"Disney"-like name-calling when it suits him. I don't see any of his defenders addressing this issue on this thread. Instead, they attack anyone who raises the point.>> I only see Al 'name-calling' execs. And while it may not be something you'd do, I don't feel it automatically makes him a bad person or dismisses what he has to say. But I am not an 'Al defender' so you'll have to wait for one of them to respond. <<In fact, another point on this thread is that anyone who dares criticize Al Lutz suffers reflexive attacks by his supporters. I think that numerous -- increasingly personal and hostile -- posts on this thread support that position.>> There is definitely truth to that. But it takes two to tango (I learned that from being forced to watch Dancing With the Stars) and I see it going both ways. There are people here who are friends with Al and there are some (or at least one) person who has had some ugly personal history with the man. I really don't care about either very much. I'm more interested in discussing points he and others raise rather than discussing personalities. Your thoughts?
Originally Posted By danyoung >In fact, another point on this thread is that anyone who dares criticize Al Lutz suffers reflexive attacks by his supporters.< This has been said more and more lately on this thread, and I don't think it's true. I think many of us are just fine with criticizing Al or his tone or his track record. It's only when someone like jon starts in with the venom-filled rhetoric that people start to show Al some support. It's all about balance, folks. It's just fine to disagree with anyone, as long as you do it in a civil manner. Sadly, civility has lost its way in this thread. >And when people have no problem with cartoon characters in every land, parks that are cleaner than Six Flags...< I don't know about you, oh Spirit, but I personally enjoy parks that are cleaner than Six Flags . . .
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 ^^^I imagine he meant "not" cleaner than. At least that's how I interpretted what he wrote.
