Al Lutz nails apologists ...

Discussion in 'Walt Disney World News, Rumors and General Disc' started by See Post, Oct 9, 2007.

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    Originally Posted By jonvn

    I don't read his website.

    Just gross. People really are gullible.
     
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    Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

    I'm glad someone revived my thread ... the only thing I can add is to Dean's point about Sicko ... I feel it's one of the most important films made in the past two decades. It really should be a must see for all the closed minded folks in the Heartland who stupidly and naively believe we have the best healthcare in the world, and believe there's nothing wrong with allowing healthcare to be a business.

    "You can dislike his own brand of politics, style .. in the way he comes across ...... But he lays out the cold facts whether one wants to deny them or not."


    So true ... I wonder what Al thought about the film?
     
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    Originally Posted By RoadTrip

    <<I don't read his website.>>

    Me neither.

    And after seeing Fahrenheit 911 I promised myself I would never stoop to seeing another Michael Moore film. That is a promise I intend to keep.
     
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    Originally Posted By MPierce

    Let's all get together, and marvel at the fantastic health care system that Cuba has. Isn't that one of Michael Moore's points he try's to bring across. I'm with RoadTrip on this one. I refuse to pay good money to someone that is filled with such a vile hate for this country.
     
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    Originally Posted By oc_dean

    Bitter Lutz Dalmations
     
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    Originally Posted By vbdad55

    <<<I don't read his website.>>

    Me neither.

    And after seeing Fahrenheit 911 I promised myself I would never stoop to seeing another Michael Moore film. That is a promise I intend to keep.
    >


    right with you there - no one is more full of themselves than Mr Moore - and I don't need that self egrandizing goof to tell me the healthcare system in this country is broken right now.
     
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    Originally Posted By jonvn

    "Isn't that one of Michael Moore's points he try's to bring across."

    No. What he's trying to point out is how shabby ours is.
     
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    Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

    Exactly.

    Michael Moore may be a jerk, but it doesn't change his message one bit.

    And while Cuba doesn't have better healthcare than this country, it did take care of OUR 9/11 heros that our kind, compassionate country couldn't be bothered to. That should anger every AMerican.

    And the Cuba segment was a very small part of a larger film.

    His point about Western Europe and Canada having better healthcare than we do wasn't hyperbole like the Cuban segment. It was fact. But socialized medicine scares the crap out of people who are pure 100% capitalists (you know, those who believe if you can't pay, you die or get very substandard care.)

    I recall seeing a report on healthcare on CNN close to a decade ago where the anchors were talking about 'well, it's not the best system, but it's our system.' It was one of those 'we'll never have anything better' statements of resignment. I don't accept that.

    And I say our system is fundamentally flawed and anti-American ... it needs to be thrown out completely.

    I believe in democracy. I also believe in kindness and compassion for all people, with Americans coming first. We don't practice what we preach and for what we spend in a few months in Iraq (accomplishing absolutely nothing good) ever child could have universal healthcare. Trillions will be spent on Iraq, but healthcare isn't even mentioned in the Republican debate this week?!?!? Well, at least God and the Bible were brought up repeatedly and what punishment women should get when abortion is illegal and they break the law. (Have I fallen asleep and awakened in Bizarro America?)

    But I know this can go on and on ... and it will without me ... because I really want to go to DL tomorrow and that means sleep now.

    Have fun with this thread, I'm sure it will get quite nasty ... and that's without even finding out what Al Lutz's views of healthcare are.

    Maybe we can get Jon working on that one! ;-)
     
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    Originally Posted By jonvn

    What you point out is but one reason why there is not a shred of reason to vote Republican, period. They simply don't care about the welfare of the public. Never have.
     
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    Originally Posted By DouglasDubh

    This is the country that produces most of the breakthroughs in medical techniques and medicines, and there's a reason for that. Like it or not, health care is about getting services and products to people, and there is no system that is better at serving the most people for the lowest cost than capitalism. The problems we have with health care now is because there is too much interference by government, not because there is too little.

    <Trillions will be spent on Iraq, but healthcare isn't even mentioned in the Republican debate this week?>

    That's the fault of the questioners, not the candidates.
     
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    Originally Posted By jonvn

    You know this should probably be discussed in world events.
     
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    Originally Posted By MPierce

    ^^^ Yes it should, but it was brought up here.

    >> And while Cuba doesn't have better healthcare than this country, it did take care of OUR 9/11 heros that our kind, compassionate country couldn't be bothered to. That should anger every AMerican. <<

    Are you referring to Allan Tannebaum's "article". I can't seem to find to many articles on this. I think all anyone needs to know about Cuba is that people risk their lives to flee from there. To me that pretty much saids it all. Anyone is free to leave here at anytime without fear of reprisal. I would like to see articles written by Cuban refugee's about Cuba's caring, and compassionate medical system. I'm sure the elite get exceptional treatment.

    >> and the Bible were brought up repeatedly and what punishment women should get when abortion is illegal and they break the law. <<

    I must have gone to the fridge for a beer during that exchange. Now I'm curious how much jail time did they suggest?

    >> What you point out is but one reason why there is not a shred of reason to vote Republican, period. They simply don't care about the welfare of the public. Never have. <<

    My, my, let me guess...are you a Democrat? I'm sure you will be happy with the direction this country will take in 2009. However, unlike others, I think this country is strong enough to hold up no matter who is in office. In the future if I cry, and whine about the sorry direction this country has taken please ask me to shut up, and suck it up.

    >> This is the country that produces most of the breakthroughs in medical techniques and medicines, and there's a reason for that. Like it or not, health care is about getting services and products to people, and there is no system that is better at serving the most people for the lowest cost than capitalism. <<

    In the haste to point out what's wrong with this country somethings are left forgotten in the dust. We also fail to remember all of the charity work done by this country.
     
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    Originally Posted By jonvn

    "My, my, let me guess...are you a Democrat? "

    No, actually, I'm not.

    "I'm sure you will be happy with the direction this country will take in 2009."

    I have no idea what direction this country will take in 2009.

    "However, unlike others, I think this country is strong enough to hold up no matter who is in office."

    Yes, well, we've barely managed with the current disaster in office. Barely.

    "please ask me to shut up, and suck it up."

    You got it, sir.

    "In the haste to point out what's wrong with this country "

    It basically is irrelevant if we create more medical breakthroughs, which I don't even know if that is true or not.

    The problem is that millions of people have no health care. The two issues have nothing to do with each other and is just a way of side tracking what is being said.

    "We also fail to remember all of the charity work done by this country."

    Again, utterly without any connection to the fact that there is no health care for millions.

    And probably you too, if you ever lose your job.
     
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    Originally Posted By DouglasDubh

    <It basically is irrelevant if we create more medical breakthroughs, which I don't even know if that is true or not.>

    Medical breakthroughs mean better medical care.

    <The problem is that millions of people have no health care.>

    There's a difference between not having health care, and not having health insurance.
     
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    Originally Posted By MPierce

    >> And probably you too, if you ever lose your job. <<

    I don't have a job, I'm retired. but I do have health insurance which I pay dearly for. You working folks care to pick up my tab. High cost is a problem here, not the quality of health care. Here in Houston we have 2 major charity hospitals, Ben Taub, and Jefferson Davis. I'm sure you can check on line how good of a quality they are. Ben Taub has one of the best trauma centers in America. People come from all over the world to the medical center here. We have a Shriners burn center that is free to all children who need it. M.D. Anderson is one of the leading cancer facilities in the world. Ask California how bad their free medical care has hurt their system. I could go on and on about the medical care we have here. That's not even getting into the first class medical facilities in Chicago, Cleveland, New York, Minnesota, Just about every major city in every state. California had one heck of a fine medical system until they have been over burden with non-American charity cases. America's health system is not perfect by any means, it needs a lot of work mainly to make it more affordable. However the quality of medical care here is excellent.

    >> Medical breakthroughs mean better medical care. <<

    Absolutely, and the amount of research done here is mind boggeling.

    >> There's a difference between not having health care, and not having health insurance. <<

    A fact that sometimes gets over looked in our rush to condemn.
     
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    Originally Posted By jonvn

    "Medical breakthroughs mean better medical care."

    Doesn't matter. We have millions of people who do not have health care.

    "There's a difference between not having health care, and not having health insurance."

    Very little. Unless you consider going to the ER for every little thing, and being unable to pay for it health care, it is not. At least not adequate.

    What it comes down to, again, is millions of people not being able to either get health care, or not affording it.

    And this will happen to you, too, if you lose your job. You tell me, if you were unemployed, you'd be able to afford the 500 or so a month it would cost to provide sufficient health care for you family? I doubt it.

    Oh, sure you can go to the ER, but if you have to have an appendectomy? There goes tens of thousands of dollars, and probably your home.

    There is no excuse for this. And "medical breakthroughs" have nothing to do with it.
     
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    Originally Posted By jonvn

    "I don't have a job, I'm retired. "

    So everyone else can just drop dead, is that it?

    "Ask California how bad their free medical care has hurt their system."

    I live in California. We don't have "free medical care" here. If I did not have health insurance, and got sick, I'd lose my home and everything else I have ever worked for.

    And I'm not alone. This is how it is for almost everyone. If you're lucky enough to already be on the government teat, or are on some pension plan, good for you. The rest of us aren't quite so lucky.
     
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    Originally Posted By DouglasDubh

    <Doesn't matter. We have millions of people who do not have health care.>

    So we'd be better off if more people had lousier health care? I don't see why.

    <Unless you consider going to the ER for every little thing, and being unable to pay for it health care, it is not.>

    I don't. There are options you are not considering. But regardless, giving more people free health insurance would not improve their health care.

    <And this will happen to you, too, if you lose your job.>

    No, it won't. I pay for my own health insurance.

    <You tell me, if you were unemployed, you'd be able to afford the 500 or so a month it would cost to provide sufficient health care for you family?>

    There are lots of things that people couldn't afford if they were unemployed. Should the government guarantee all of those things too?
     
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    Originally Posted By RoadTrip

    <<There are lots of things that people couldn't afford if they were unemployed. Should the government guarantee all of those things too?>>

    Well, maybe not everything, but I'd sure like them to make my house and car payments!

    ;-)
     
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    Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan

    >>But regardless, giving more people free health insurance would not improve their health care.<<

    "Some" is certainly better than "none."

    Of course, people who cannot afford it do get health care at county hospitals. Usually by visiting an emergency room. This is the most inefficient and expensive way, and doesn't provide any sort of "preventitive maintenance" that people with regular check-ups get.

    By searching for something between "assistance" and "nothing", we probably could find a more efficent, less expensive way to help more people be healthier.
     
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