Al Lutz nails apologists ...

Discussion in 'Walt Disney World News, Rumors and General Disc' started by See Post, Oct 9, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Random Thread
  1. See Post

    See Post New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan

    (Wow. This is a long way from Al Lutz. LOL)
     
  2. See Post

    See Post New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

    <<There's a difference between not having health care, and not having health insurance. >>

    If you believe this, you are totally, utterly 100% clueless.I've watched friends and family members live this nightmare. I've heard docs say 'come back when you're dying.'

    You keep spouting the capitalist BS. Ignorance is bliss until it happens to you.

    But I'll let you guys have at this, I''ve got a FP for Mansion Holiday in an hour and need to head back to DL!
     
  3. See Post

    See Post New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Originally Posted By DouglasDubh

    <If you believe this, you are totally, utterly 100% clueless.>

    So, even when they're not posting on WE, liberals mistake insults for arguments.
     
  4. See Post

    See Post New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Originally Posted By RoadTrip

    <<You keep spouting the capitalist BS.>>

    Capitalist BS is more than likely what got you your Mercedes.
     
  5. See Post

    See Post New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Originally Posted By dshyates

    OK, here's the real problem. 80% of bancrupcies in this country are because of health care costs. Everyboby believes that since they have insurance they are ok. But 75% of those bancrupcies had insurance when they got ill. If you get sick and can't work you lose your insurance, and who can afford COBRA. So your ill, can't work, facing tens of thousands in medical bills, and bancrupt.
     
  6. See Post

    See Post New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Originally Posted By DouglasDubh

    So the argument isn't that other countries have better health care, but that other countries have better health insurance?
     
  7. See Post

    See Post New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Originally Posted By dshyates

    No, insurance is not the answer. It is a third party that has absolutely nothing to do with healthcare and is sucking trillions of dollars out of the system. Whats the point in paying thousands to the insurance co. when the end result is you will loses it whe you need it most. Your still sick, still bancrupt, and the insurance co. made 100 thousand off of you over 25 years and all you got were yearly physicals.
     
  8. See Post

    See Post New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Originally Posted By DouglasDubh

    You're right. I guess it would be better to have lousy health care, and get sick and die. At least you'd still have money.
     
  9. See Post

    See Post New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Originally Posted By jonvn

    "So we'd be better off if more people had lousier health care? I don't see why."

    Irrelevant. People have no health care, by the millions.

    "giving more people free health insurance would not improve their health care."

    If they have none, it would.

    "Should the government guarantee all of those things too?"

    Irrelevant. No one is suggesting all things be free to all people.
     
  10. See Post

    See Post New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Originally Posted By jonvn

    "Everyboby believes that since they have insurance they are ok"

    And they are completely fooling themselves. For not only is it what you suggest, that they lose their jobs and their insurance, insurance will only pay so much, then you are financially destroyed.

    "I guess it would be better to have lousy health care"

    Drivel. no one said any such thing.
     
  11. See Post

    See Post New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Originally Posted By jonvn

    Oh, and by the way:

    <<So, even when they're not posting on WE, liberals mistake insults for arguments.>>

    If you say something that sounds clueless, and is clueless, someone is going to say you sound clueless, and it doesn't matter who you are speaking to or where you are doing it.

    And as long as you think everyone else in the world who doesn't ascribe to your right wing extremist viewpoint is a "liberal," then yes, you are clueless.
     
  12. See Post

    See Post New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Originally Posted By DouglasDubh

    <If you say something that sounds clueless, and is clueless, someone is going to say you sound clueless, and it doesn't matter who you are speaking to or where you are doing it.>

    People who are clueless shouldn't go around calling other people clueless. That's especially true of people who can't distinguish between health care and health insurance.
     
  13. See Post

    See Post New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Originally Posted By jonvn

    No one here is clueless but you, doug.

    Everyone here understands what both health care and health insurance. But they further understand that you need health insurance in order to pay for it, or you are out of luck and in some cases driven to poverty.

    That's the reality, and if you don't know it, you are clueless.

    I hope you don't end up having to suffer from one of the many extreme positions you take on things, this being the most likely.

    You can get sick, you can run out of insurance, and you then are at the point where you become ruined financially.

    But, hey, that's capitalism, right?
     
  14. See Post

    See Post New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Originally Posted By DouglasDubh

    <No one here is clueless but you, doug.>

    The clueless ones here are the ones that can't recognize that good health care costs money, and that capitalism is the best system for distributing the best goods and services to the most system for the lowest cost.

    <But they further understand that you need health insurance in order to pay for it, or you are out of luck and in some cases driven to poverty.>

    But they don't understand that the alternative to this is to lower our standard of health care to make it less affordable, and more people will get sick and die. In other words, they're clueless.

    <I hope you don't end up having to suffer from one of the many extreme positions you take on things, this being the most likely.>

    None of my positions are extreme. The only people who would think they are are clueless.
     
  15. See Post

    See Post New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

    <<So, even when they're not posting on WE, liberals mistake insults for arguments.>>

    Hey, buddy, I never said I was a 'liberal.' I also don't see why the word is a bad thing either.

    And I don't post on WE. That's not what I come to LP.com for, although judging by the sheer volume of posts there and the often vile nature, I'd say more folks come here for that than to discuss Disney.

    But when someone tries to tell me that things I am witnessing and experiencing through loved ones aren't happening, well, that's sheer, pure ignorance.

    Just try and get healthcare when you have no insurance and aren't wealthy ... to say its third world like, is an insult to the third world.
     
  16. See Post

    See Post New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

    <<Capitalist BS is more than likely what got you your Mercedes.>>

    No. Actually having generous spirits in my family helped.

    I never said capitalism was bad. It's quite good. It just shouldn't be the basis for our healthcare system because there is NO room for compassion and ethical treatment of those who can't care for themselves under it. And since we tout ourselves to the world as a bastion of compassion (we truly think we are better than anyone else in this regard which is such a joke) we come of as the biggest hypocrites on the planet because while we do throw our money all over the planet for many worthy causes (and many sickening ones ... like Iraq), we never seem to start at home.
     
  17. See Post

    See Post New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

    <<The clueless ones here are the ones that can't recognize that good health care costs money, and that capitalism is the best system for distributing the best goods and services to the most system for the lowest cost. >>

    Utter cow manure. Go to Europe. Their healthcare is at least as good, if not better some would say, than ours ... and no one pays for it but the government.

    Oh, yeah, you don't want to pay for those poor, sick, huddles masses that can't get insurance or lose it and get stuck with no healthcare.

    Guess what? I don't want to pay to fund an illegal war of agression that has made our country so much more vunerable to crazy Muslim extremists. But I don't have any choice.

    <<But they don't understand that the alternative to this is to lower our standard of health care to make it less affordable, and more people will get sick and die. In other words, they're clueless.>>

    No, it isn't.

    The answer is socialized medicine. It always has been. Universal healthcare should be guarnteed for each and every American.

    You go to Europe and these doctors, who aren't exactly living in poverty either on the government payroll, just laugh and mock us ... it's like no one here can see the emperor has no clothes.
     
  18. See Post

    See Post New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

    Oh, and you can blame my minion OCDean for this tangent ... he compared crazy Al to Michael Moore (it was a decent, if flawed, analogy but it opened this all up).

    Does anyone want to know how my four-hour visit to DL was? :)
     
  19. See Post

    See Post New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Originally Posted By davewasbaloo

    I have to weigh in here. As someone who has lived in both the US and in England where we have socialised medicine, I think I am pretty qualified to comment.

    The quality of care in Europe is excellent. I had braces for free, when dating, condoms for free, I pay $12 every 3 months for my Blood Preasure meds, my kids cost me nothing for delivery. It is excellent. Is it faultless? No, but neither is US medicine. And for those of us who are capitalists, we can (and I do) buy additional medical insurance to cover things like private rooms, faster treatment etc. It works really well.

    And research is Europe is awesome too - IVF, Open Heart surgery, major organ transplants - all of these procedures were developed in Europe (where Socialised Medicine is the norm).

    As a specialist in Social Care, I have seen first hand that it costs a tax payer a lot less to have socialised medicine than not. There is a drain on the local economy for poor people, no matter where you live in the world. And areas can become undesirable and cause loss of housing equity even for the middle classes. Socialised medicine means that there is a better life chance for all.

    My only complaints about socialised medicine are:

    There are waiting lists for care - maybe up to a year for an operation (but added health insurance allows you to jump the queue)

    The prevention model of care is not as good here as in the US - cervical smears are every 2 years, and breast cancer screening is for over 40's. Again though, if you have private health cover, you can do whatever you want - smears once a month if you wish.

    Personally, a lot of my salary goes on contributions, but it sounds like no more than insurance in the US. The big difference is I know I will still be taken care f if the money stops (I have a stroke and become disabled, I retire etc. - but it also takes care of everyone else in this country, and that feels goo).

    Now, living in the US - braces are a status symbol, I was 2 and a half years old before my mom paid me off. My aunt had Cardio Myopathy as a high ranking IRS official, and after 8 weeks of treatment, her insurance stopped paying - she had to sell off everything and rely on charity support to live an extra 2 years.

    My Grandmother cost us a fortune when she had a heart attack and die.

    When my mom was diagnosed with Lupus, we went from 2 houses and 3 cars to just about hanging on to 1 house and having food stamps - because of loopholes in her insurance.

    When I broke my arms and leg, we could have bought a car for the cost of my medical bills because I had complications that arose that guess what....they were not covered by our insurance.

    So, I think the US medical system sucks! Big time. In the UK, medical practitioners still do very well for themselves financially. I do not know what US Doctors earn these days, but a family general practitioner can expect between $160,000 to $300,000 a year in Social medicine.

    Socialised medicine is one of the many reasons why I choose to stay in England, even though the weather sucks, the houses are small and the service in stores and restaurants are sub par.

    I know that is something ever happens to me, my family will be taken care of.

    And I get 5 weeks a year vacation time paid.

    And the crime rate is much lower.

    I love America, and I am proud to be American. But the selfish attitude of some capitalist Americans honestly makes me feel sick. Hence why I think MM called his movie Sicko - it was not the ill people he was referring to, but more of the American consciousness.
     
  20. See Post

    See Post New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan

    Thanks for bursting some of the myths we get in this country about how changing our healthcare system doesn't automatically mean nothing but sub par care and the end of medical breakthroughs here.

    (Now watch. Some clever quipster will take the above out of context and say "No, not automatically. It will take a year or two." or something like it.)

    But I do appreciate hearing from someone who has seen this stuff and actually lived it, rather than from the National Review.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page