Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Oh and kudos for Trippy to bring sex into the conversation!!!! My hearty congrats - that is such a great way to expend energy and cheer one's self up ;-)
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << I'm sorry. But unless I save three children as Space Mountain collapses around them due to neglect, I shouldn't ever be the subject of a thread. >> Then why do you originate so many postings with your screen name in the topic title?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Okay, how'd *I* get dragged into this? I haven't contributed to this thread one bit!>> Sorry X. I’m old. You guys with names that are letters or numbers (X, 57) confuse me. I thought I had read a couple of posts where you took our resident spook to task, but I see I was incorrect about that. Oh well. My point still stands. We’ve certainly had our disagreements at times. Still, on any given post I’m just as likely to agree with you as to disagree with you. It doesn’t pay to carry grudges here. Kumbaya and all that stuff.
Originally Posted By idleHands I'm still shaking my head over why so many people are so upset at this DoM comment of Al's. He specifically qualified what a DoM is -- which is NOT the typical Disney discussion board poster -- and mentioned their increased activity on all the Disney fan discussion boards (not just MiceChat) since the summer season began. He also mentioned that the DoMs were targeting WDW in particular, and that certain key individuals inside Glendale and Burbank were printing out these comments and using them in their arguments for continuing the status quo at the parks. These managers and execs were agreeing with the DoM posters, using them as proof that all or at least most of the guests enjoy the park offerings of the past several years. They use these posts to erroneously conclude that park guests do not see a decline in quality that online pundits like Al and Kevin Yee and Jim Hill and the Re-Imagineering bloggers see, that Spirit and other posters have seen, and that John Lasseter and Tony Baxter and other like-minded Imagineers have seen for years and vocally complained about to upper management. What I took away from the article, is that Al is tacitly implying the increased volume of these DoM posts, especially those DoM posts which target WDW specifically, is a deliberate attempt by the managers and execs who are at odds with the Principle Creative Advisor and other Imagineering execs who agree with him, to undermine the recent changes in the organizational structure. The reorganization back in May resulted in a major power shift, when Tom Fitzgerald lost creative control of all parks and resorts and became the creative executive in control of just three WDW parks (not DAK). Definitely not a step up the executive leadership ladder. Even though several individuals on the fan sites claimed that this was in no way a demotion for Fitzgerald, I do not see how it could have been otherwise. Going from Senior Creative Executive of all of Creative Development at WDI, to just the creative executive in charge of MK, MGM, and Epcot seems like a demotion to me. And I, too, find it too coincidental that these DoM posts have significantly increased in number and tenacity, shortly after Mr. Fitzgerald was replaced by Bruce Vaughn as the head of Creative Development in Glendale. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that certain online posters and personalities are socially connected, even possibly professionally connected, to the Imagineering execs who lost their power and influence after the reorganization. And it doesn't take a genius to understand the apologist mentality and behavior as it's applied in the online defense of these managers. Al was NOT condemning everyone who disagrees with his opinion regarding the decline of quality at the parks. He was calling out the anonymous posters and bloggers who are deliberately defending bad creative design and bad creative decisions by the execs and managers who disagree with Lasseter's vision for the parks, that those execs and managers are using inside Disney to discredit him. Anyone who is taking personal offense to these DoM comments is reading way too much into the article, and needs to just let it go.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Well, Spirit, duckling, it's obvious to your cauldron girls that some old toads out there can't see the forest for the trees where both you and Al Lutz are concerned. But that's their problem--not yours. Just continue to be who you are. We love your posts and appreciate you as an individual and a friend here in the Laughing Place pond. It seems to us that some people around here are actually jealous of you for some reason and can't wait to try and trip you and Mr. Lutz up for daring to take the sort of stands you take. Again, that's their problem and not yours. We need little boys to point out when the emporer's new clothes aren't really there. Trying to attach a bunch of imagined agenda's or other babbling nonsense to your supposed motives only makes certain old toads look ridiculous. Again, that's THEIR problem, not yours. ORWEN: Hugs and kisses to you, gosling!! ORGOCH: Got frogs?
Originally Posted By mstaft I think these conversations are great. I happen to enjoy everybody on this board- even if I don't always agree. You've all given me some of the biggest fits of laughter I have ever experienced in recent years- especially IdleHands. So, thanks everyone.
Originally Posted By jonvn "But I honestly don't understand the hostility at all. " I never have, either. IT gets very personal. "So what you write just comes off as a personal attack and we're back to arguing the man vs. the message." Let's talk about getting personal. First is his latest go round where he calls everyone who disagrees with him names, and tells people they are a dangerous group and need to be silenced (basically). That's already personal. Then you have things done in the past. Showing up at a teenager's house to talk to his parents because he didn't like what the kid had to say on a newsgroup. Or calling someone's place of employment (not at Disney) and trying to get them fired from their job because they too didn't tow the Al line. Or when he started talking about acts of physical violence against me. These are extremely personal attacks that not only cross the line, but are almost criminal. They have been going on for a decade now. Some are open like this last one, some are veiled. All are nasty. He has continually poisoned the waters online and has divided people who could have all been put together as another fan base into people who sound like a bunch of hate filled crazies. This is why the comments are personal sounding, because he's making personal comments towards people. This is why he gets what he gets. He has caused a lot of useless anger and heartache and it's all done for his own benefit. It's an absolutely terrible thing that has gone on, and he's basically to blame for it. Now you can call this a personal attack again, but these are simply things I've seen, and what the conclusions are I've come to. I didn't just pop up one day and started saying "Al is evil." It's been a very very long series of behaviors and acts that have really caused anyone with a shred of decency in them to realize what a piece of work this guy actually is. He and his little band of sycophants have wrecked our community. And they all deserved to be called on it.
Originally Posted By jonvn "He specifically qualified what a DoM " It doesn't matter. By it's very wording it is a hostile and offensive thing to say to people for no reason other than they disagree with him.
Originally Posted By jonvn Sorry if I'm coming off as a crank, but this is just a very sad thing, and unfortunate. People should remember what we're talking about, and try to keep that in perspective.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Al is tacitly implying the increased volume of these DoM posts" By the way, this is pretty stupid in any case. At the beginning of summer, you are going to get an increase in the number of younger people who post to the internet because school is out. A lot of them really like WDW. So if there is a lot more people posting like that, that's a good reason for it, too. But the thing is, I have not even seen this anyway. It all seems to be just about the same as it ever has been. The whole premise is bizarre to say the least.
Originally Posted By danyoung Well, what a fun thread! Seems some people have to spend more time defending themselves than they do defending their ideas about Disney. Too bad. I can say that the Spirit's self-deprecating style can easily be misinterpreted as pompousity. I can also say that he will debate a subject fiercely, which can be intimidating to some. We butted heads pretty strongly when I first discovered him a few years ago, but we have since developed into pretty danged good online friends. So I'd say to I-57 to relax a bit, take a deep breath, and try a little harder to see the Spirit as he really is, not as the monster you've built him up to be. And as to the Al thing and the DoM, it concerns me. I think Al has done an excellent job of late with his reporting, labelling rumors as just rumors, and reporting the positive along with the negative. But I don't like the idea that anyone who isn't as rabid as he is over whatever he perceives as bad within the Disney company now gets a label. I've had my share of being called an apologist, and I really don't like it (nor do I agree with the label). If I go into the MK and have a great time and don't worry about trash cans or don't notice that the street was a little dirtier than it should have been or have an interaction with a CM that was less than warm and fuzzy and don't run immediately to Guest Relations to post a complaint - does all of that make me a DoM? Ridiculous! I'll point out the bad right along with the rest of you all, but I won't let it overtake and ruin my vacation. Life's too short. It's one thing to rant a bit online about what you like and dislike - it's quite another for someone like Al to expect me to make it my life's mission to hold Disney's corporate nose to the grindstone. I just don't have the time or the energy. So I don't like the label, and I don't like the concept. If someone is completely happy with Disney and the service they're getting and the vacations they're enjoying (anyone remember Lewis Goofy?)- more power to 'em. As long as we can come together on sites like this and Micechat and Mousepad and present our thoughts without ridicule or cruel labelling, then life is good. <<Could you tell me whatever happened to the Lion King performance theatre that MPH replaced? Why was it cancelled never to be seen again.>> >Are you referring to the old Mickey Mouse Review?< I think the reference is to Mickey's Philharmagic replacing the Lion King show in the MK.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Could you tell me whatever happened to the Lion King performance theatre that MPH replaced? Why was it cancelled never to be seen again.>> Because it was stale and boring and no one liked it anymore.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I'll point out the bad right along with the rest of you all, but I won't let it overtake and ruin my vacation. << A very reasonable approach.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Okay, how'd *I* get dragged into this? I haven't contributed to this thread one bit!< maybe you're the X factor
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub Too bad, the Lion King combined elements of the actual animated movie and music along with real performers and the "Craft" of Puppetry...In reference to DoM, the most important thing to remember is the loss of the Disney Gallery recently at DL. I now worry about the loss of the Main Street Cinema turning into a video store at DL and at WDW the theatre behind the Kodak Photo Store. In the morning AAA blocks it off for their private use and the afternoons DVC prevents usage. For the past 2 months I have been denied access to sit and watch the Walt Disney Classic Cartoons...and leaving a message at customer relations has gotten no reply. Would anybody else like to add to this list of forewarnings to be alert to.If you fear for the preservation/loss of another beloved Classic Walt/Historical preservation please post a warning.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <"But I honestly don't understand the hostility at all. " I never have, either. IT gets very personal. < okay, let's leave IT people like Trippy out of this ..haha
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Then why do you originate so many postings with your screen name in the topic title?>> I dunno ... maybe because when I write observations, I want people to know they came from me ... but I sure don't do it very much. Just slightly more frequently than you change screen names here.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Oh and kudos for Trippy to bring sex into the conversation!!!! My hearty congrats - that is such a great way to expend energy and cheer one's self up ;-)>> I really don't want to hear about Trippy cheering himself up!
