Originally Posted By jonvn "Actually, Jon, on the Micechat WDW Board it has become almost all posters who just gush that WDW is perfect." I really don't read Micechat, unless my name manages to come up in the conversation. And if they want to gush like that, fine. He doesn't even write about that place anyway. And when Kevin Yee tries to, it's absolutely terrible. I have read a lot of stuff about how TDL and TDS are just PERFECT, and it is annoying to hear. Nothing is ever perfect, ever. But given an overabundance of uncalled for and overbearing criticism, you're going to see a reaction to that. It's just natural. For a long time, people said I never had a bad thing to say about Disney, ever, no matter what. I was the apologist on this board. Well, not really. I've not changed. What has changed is that people who were here making insanely negative comments have gone away, and the conversation is now more reasonable. A place where positive and negative can be discussed without absolutes. IT makes for a better discussion.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>What has changed is that people who were here making insanely negative comments have gone away, and the conversation is now more reasonable. A place where positive and negative can be discussed without absolutes.<< That's true. There are some people that get truly hysterical about this stuff. That's why this DoM nonsense is annoying, as is calling people "apologists" simply because they enjoy something that someone else does not.
Originally Posted By jonvn "People (including myself) see Disney as an escape from the real world." You shouldn't. It's not. It really is not. Honest. It's a theme park. It's a resort. It's a getaway, it's a place to have fun. It's a real location, there is no magic, and you have to allow for all this. It's not a perfect world, and Disney is not going to somehow be a perfect part of an otherwise imperfect world. It's not a fair way to judge something.
Originally Posted By Mr X **Well, much of the behavior I could cite would likely turn some stomachs here and while most is legal, if totally unethical, some of it has likely crossed lines.** Spirit, I promise I will never mention it to another living soul. My email is jammindave@hotmail.com
Originally Posted By jonvn It is very very difficult to turn my stomach. I want to know what Cynthia did that could possibly do such a thing. Are horses involved? Come on, give us a clue...
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Spirit, I promise I will never mention it to another living soul.<< Sure. You said the same thing about my crack addiction! Oh wait, you never did mention that to anyone. Uh, gee, well... nevermind, people! Move along!
Originally Posted By Mr X Yeah, that's right! And I kept that secret about you and the polititian in the airport bathroom too, buddy! oops.
Originally Posted By Mr X I'm sure everyone realizes you just needed the money to pay for the crack. And that Peruvian male to female reassignment surgery, of course. Oh, wait. That was WorldDisney. Sorry.
Originally Posted By danyoung "People (including myself) see Disney as an escape from the real world." >You shouldn't. It's not. It really is not. Honest.< Ummm, I most definitely see Disney parks as being an escape. I've always said I have two states of being - outside of a Disney park, and inside a Disney park. As soon as I click through that turnstile, it's like flipping a switch. Life is just different inside the parks, and for me that's a great thing. I don't go so far as to say that there's any actual magic, but there is something very special about these parks. So I don't feel bad at all in stating that I'm not in the real world when I'm inside the gates.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <It's a theme park. It's a resort. It's a getaway, it's a place to have fun< from a 60 hour a week job, traveling the globe, and dealing with one crisis after another ( at least they are crisis to some people ) - that is my definition of escape from the real world. It is the 2 weeks a year my laptop is off and at home, the blackberry is next to it ( OK I have my cell on 24x7) - but people at work know this is my only extended down time - that is 'magic' if you have been in the position I am in for as long as I have been. My family is there with me...and time really becomes a non factor
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<First, I-57, a question. A very simple one. Is your agenda for me to stop posting here?>> On the contrary. I hope you'll continue to post. As I said on my original post (#49) in this thread, I value your insights, your commitment to standards, and the news you bring. What I WOULD like to see was also simply stated in my original post: 1) Assuming that fan-site posts have any potential of changing the actions of the Disney company -- as was the basic tenant of Al's column that you quoted, and is something that you have long maintained -- I'd like your body of posts here to become more credible, more likely to effect that change. I believe that when you engage in the Al-like behavior of referring to WDW execs by "cute" derrogatory names, you lose influence. That when you state, as you did in June, that you won't acknowledge positive aspects of a WDW visit because you have no respect for the execs in charge, you lose credibility. [Hey, that was something YOU wrote. I didn't invent it. Take responsibility for it.] That when you fill your posts with gleeful slanderous innuendo about Disney management instead of actual content, you damage your credibility with the people who could actually make change happen. I DO respect your love of the Parks, whatever inside information you have, and your obvious intelligence. And I hate to see those things squandered by... what? I used the term "posting style" to cover it in my original post. 2) I'd like to see you stop belittling, bashing, and bullying those who disagree with you on LP. Contrary to the way you've painted me on this thread, I'm not the only one who's had this issue. I am, though, I guess, one of the few who are willing to withstand the increasingly insulting personal attacks from you that result from disagreeing with you. I've been a member of LP for close to 10 years. I have an investment in it. Sure, it's just a website, a place I visit when I can. It's not my primary source of social contact. It doesn't manage my retirement funds. The fate of the world doesn't rest in its hands. But that doesn't mean I don't have a vested interest in it. I want this to be a place that works. Where intelligent dialogue and disagreement can happen. "Spirited" disagreement, even. But not when spirited disagreement means that one poster calls another mentally unbalanced because he has challenged that poster more than once.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey << "People (including myself) see Disney as an escape from the real world." >You shouldn't. It's not. It really is not. Honest.< >> First off, you can't tell anyone what an escape is. What constitutes my escape doesn't constitute yours, and vice versa. WDW is DEFINITELY an escape for me and several other people on this board. The minute I hit that gate at the entrance to the property, my "real life" is suspended. I don't have to worry about the bills or what's going on across the globe or any other thing that plagues my mind on a day-to-day basis. That's another reason I don't leave property once I arrive, and why I don't rent a car and drive from park to park. I like the sanitized little world that WDW offers; I like not seeing common billboard advertisements and gridlocked traffic and all that other garbage. It is an escape, and I can't wait until I can escape again next month, even if it's only for four days. As far as the strong feelings on this thread go, anything true, real human interaction is going to result in people gettng upset with each other, feelings being hurt, etc. Yeah, it's "just Disney", but people are people and they have feelings. Everybody gets sensitive from time to time (I'm the Queen of Sensitive, and proud of it), so there will be debates and anger and the whole nine yards. I don't think it's a bad thing; it lets you know you're alive, and in the end it makes life a heck of a lot more interesting. Now all of you, shut the hell up! ;-P
Originally Posted By Mr X **I like not seeing common billboard advertisements** I liked it even better back when you couldn't see ANY billboard ads (including Disney ones), but only pretty roadways. And, folks, I know I'm gonna get flamed for this (Nikki, fire up that blowtorch) but it's JUST an amusement park. Get a grip, people. ;p
Originally Posted By jonvn "First off, you can't tell anyone what an escape is." Of course I can. Didn't you read the part where I just did? I'm not telling you what an "escape" is or is not. I'm saying that the place is not a magical fairyland that exists outside of reality. It's a fun vacation destination and experience. Sure, it is an escape from your humdrum dreadfully dull and pathetic life. But it's not really an escape from the real world. It's part of the real world. and thinking that it is not a part of the real world makes it something it is not. The reason I say this is because this kind of attitude can create unrealistic and unmeetable expectations. You have to be a bit more pragmatic about things. It's a business, they try to entertain you, and you get to enjoy yourself. There are many venues and ways to do this sort of thing. You can read a book, you can go to play, you can visit a working girl. All these things do that same sort of thing. It just is what it is, and by taking it that way, I think people are able to enjoy it more.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN Shameless plug. You guys are spending way too much time here... so why not check out my Halloween photos from HKDL?? Head over to HKDL's section of LP.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I choose my words based on an understanding of both legal and psychological definitions of stalking. A quick study on the subject might reveal that the behavior exhibited on these sites with respect to the mining of personal information on people without their consent very much falls under a classic definition of stalking behavior. Get some help.>> I would suggest you do the same. TWDC is a publically traded company with millions of shareholders and, in the state of Florida is the largest employer. To the world beyond Orlando, it is billed at the No. 1 tourist destination on the planet. The people mentioned here are not random CMs, they are executives within the P&R division. Their names not only regularly appear in the mainstream media, but they often appear at public events and provide a personal face to these divisions. There is absolutely no expectation of anonymity and, to the contrary, one of accountability to the company, the cast and the guests. This is a very simple to understand when you cut through all the rhetoric. The simple goal is to improve the product and make things better for every guest. I'm not indulging this kind of harrassment and name-calling from you Sport Goofy anymore.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 "Or maybe I should start talking about the REAL Cynthia Harriss " <<I want to know! Does it involve latex?>> How did you possibly know this?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Ummm, I most definitely see Disney parks as being an escape. I've always said I have two states of being - outside of a Disney park, and inside a Disney park. As soon as I click through that turnstile, it's like flipping a switch. Life is just different inside the parks, and for me that's a great thing. I don't go so far as to say that there's any actual magic, but there is something very special about these parks. So I don't feel bad at all in stating that I'm not in the real world when I'm inside the gates. >> I basically agree with Danny ... he's obviously been taking his meds as he's been making a lot of sense lately and less puddles on the floor. WDW is definitely an escape for most people, myself included. And I've had moments/experience there that I'd call pure magic ... although not in that hocus pocus, pixie-dust way. But I think I've experienced pure magic in other vacation locales, most notably in Alaska, Hawaii, Barbados and Paris. Where I differ from Danny is that I (sadly) don't see an escape from the real world at WDW ... not with miserable people, families fighting (and I have seen some vicious 'Cops' type incidents), general boorish behavior and the like ... I don't recall seeing it when I went in the 70s and 80s. Of course, WDW was a much more insulated place with miles of forests around it and only one entrance.
