Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<First, I-57, a question. A very simple one. Is your agenda for me to stop posting here?>> <<On the contrary. I hope you'll continue to post. As I said on my original post (#49) in this thread, I value your insights, your commitment to standards, and the news you bring.>> Well, I-57, I have to say you have the most unusual way of showing me you value me. <<What I WOULD like to see was also simply stated in my original post: 1) Assuming that fan-site posts have any potential of changing the actions of the Disney company -- as was the basic tenant of Al's column that you quoted, and is something that you have long maintained -- I'd like your body of posts here to become more credible, more likely to effect that change.>> I don't believe that a simple post or even a thread such as 'why someone should take a wrecking ball to the BAH' brings about change at TWDC. That said, I'll maintain what I've always maintained and know to be true as sure as I know I am breathing and that is these boards are read by all sorts of influential people at TWDC ... from simple location and area managers to VPs to park heads to marketing honchos to powers in Burbank and Glendale. There are posts from this very site that have been read by the head of TWDC. That to me speaks volumes. These little fan sites can't be insignificant if folks like that are trolling because everyone knows you don't waste your time with the insignificant, especially when you have a big, powerful, high-paying job. So, yeah, a lot of the pulse of the Disney fan community is read by Burbank and it does play a role in some decisions. Sometimes it is kneejerk, like when everyone got online and started ripping DCA (unfairly in many cases) and SuperStar Limo in particular. That attraction was closed based almost entirely upon Internet geeks and APers. Really. FWIW, I never thought it was that bad and if built in its original form would have been kewl.Even the amazing non-character Eureka Parade was destroyed largely due to Internet geeks. But it can go the other way, and I think that was Al's point. If for example this Spirit rips Phil Holmes and Dan Cockerell for ruining Main Street at the MK by turning it into one giant WalM... I mean World of Disney store, and 87 posters chime in about how they love having it and how its much better than having individual shops with different and higher quality merchandise and actually having attractions (like the land did as recently as a decade ago), well Disney thinks 'our toughest critics aren't complaining and the bumpkins don't care or know any better so why change?' Again, they don't base the decision on what is said, but it often is factored in. <<I believe that when you engage in the Al-like behavior of referring to WDW execs by "cute" derrogatory names, you lose influence.>> We're going to have to agree to disagree or this is going to go on forever, and as soaps go General Hospital is much more entertaining than this. I only have an affectionate nickname for ONE Disney exec -- WDW's Prez Inoverherheadmeg Crofton. And guess what? People in her own offices actually use that too now. I think it more than aptly describes a woman who is a puppet of Jay Rasulo and a figurehead who never had one day of Parks Ops experience when she suddenly was plucked out of Human Resources or Communications (can't recall which at this hour) and given the title. And, just so you understand something, Meg doesn't do much of anything on a daily basis. WDW operationally is run by Erin Wallace, and no I am not a fan of hers either but I don't have a cute nickname for her. Maybe someone else can come up with one. As some Spirit I know is fond of saying 'Any volunteers?' Anyway, I doubt seriously that anyone of any substance throws away my information or credibility because I have a pet nickname for WDW's Prez. <<That when you state, as you did in June, that you won't acknowledge positive aspects of a WDW visit because you have no respect for the execs in charge, you lose credibility. [Hey, that was something YOU wrote. I didn't invent it. Take responsibility for it.] >> I do and did take responsibility. But you seem to read and acknowledge only what you want. I told you why I had issues with the new pavement. You ignored them. If you read the original thread you obviously had ready for me, you also read that the state of the MK in June was largely pathetic. Now, why don't you read my reports from last week and contrast them. I found marked improvement in many areas and pointed them out gleefully because I'd much rather have good things to say than bad. But I will never give Disney a free pass like some here do. Never. <<That when you fill your posts with gleeful slanderous innuendo about Disney management instead of actual content, you damage your credibility with the people who could actually make change happen.>> Slanderous innuendo? Don't you think you're being a bit of a drama queen (no sexual crack intended)? Again, I report things as I see them and from information gathered from trusted insiders. And I have never knowingly stated an untruth about a Disney exec here. And considering the amount of love the Spirit gets from certain folks from Glendale to Emeryville to Orlando, I just don't think I'm losing credibility with anyone. A while back (and you're free to believe or not) an Imagineer who is a 'name' was questioned by two co-workers for being me because they so loved my passion and brutal honesty. He told me he considered it a compliment that they thought that. I was floored by the whole thing. <<I DO respect your love of the Parks, whatever inside information you have, and your obvious intelligence. And I hate to see those things squandered by... what? I used the term "posting style" to cover it in my original post.>> I'm sorry, I-57. Really. But my style is what makes me who I am. I have some bad traits, but I have a lot more good ones. Even if I wanted to, which I don't, I wouldn't know how to morph into another style. It wouldn't be me. I'm an in-your-face Spirit. But I'm not mean-spirited and I think this is where you really are off-base. <<2) I'd like to see you stop belittling, bashing, and bullying those who disagree with you on LP.>> I don't do that. Really. That may well be your interpretation of my posts. But it isn't what is intended. The only thing I will ever do when I am thoroughly uptohere with some clueless spirit is tell them to go have a magical day, and they can interpret that in any way they want. If life has taught me something, it's that you'll never please everyone and some people live to see perceived insults even where none are intended. <<Contrary to the way you've painted me on this thread, I'm not the only one who's had this issue.>> You are the one who CONSISTENTLY appears in threads I'm involved in and turns them around into threads about me. I'm really not that interesting a Spirit (well, OK, yeah I am but most people here-- friends included -- truly don't know some of the realms I haunt.) Other than trolls, I don't know of any other LPer who feels like you do. Even my old battle-mate, Leemac, and I agree far more than we disagree ... when he pops his little British head and pasty white body in for a scone and some tea. <<I am, though, I guess, one of the few who are willing to withstand the increasingly insulting personal attacks from you that result from disagreeing with you.>> Who exactly am I attacking? And why, why, why do you feel like you are in charge here and need to put me in my place? You actually have my email, something I don't give lightly. If you have something you'd like to discuss, please send me an email but let's stop this BS because it has to be boring the hell out of everyone except TDLFAN who is busy stuffing his face full of popcorn while plugging his latest pictorial. <<I've been a member of LP for close to 10 years. I have an investment in it. Sure, it's just a website, a place I visit when I can. It's not my primary source of social contact. It doesn't manage my retirement funds. The fate of the world doesn't rest in its hands. But that doesn't mean I don't have a vested interest in it. I want this to be a place that works. Where intelligent dialogue and disagreement can happen.>> I agree. But not everyone is intelligent. Not everyone is skilled at debate. Not everyone is capable of seperating the idea that while I may think their idea is moronic that doesn't mean I think they're a moron. <<"Spirited" disagreement, even. But not when spirited disagreement means that one poster calls another mentally unbalanced because he has challenged that poster more than once.>> Please, the only one here who has called anyone unbalanced in this thread is Sport Goofy and he said it about ME ... and you know what? I'm going to be a big boy and just ignore him because he isn't worth any more attention. As for you, I-57, if you want to discuss me, I really don't think this is the forum for it and, frankly, feel uncomfortable doing so. It's kind of like being baited because I know so many deep dark secrets about people who work and have power at Disney ... people want to know details and they'll badger me ... and as soon as I put verifiable proof out here, my a$$ will be gone from this site. You know it and I know it. So, please, I'm asking you nicely can we stop talking about me and start talking about Disney?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Everybody gets sensitive from time to time (I'm the Queen of Sensitive, and proud of it)>> Yes, Nikki ...but do you get a tiara (like VBDAD's) and refillable mug with the Queenship? ;-)
Originally Posted By Mr X **do you get a tiara (like VBDAD's) and refillable mug with the Queenship?** Forget the tiara, take the MUG! Those things are like gold...you can reuse them vacation after vacation in perpetuity...your great-grandchildren can inherit them for their trips as well, and considering that a coke will cost at least $35 by then...well, talk about the gift that keeps on giving!
Originally Posted By danyoung >Sure, it is an escape from your humdrum dreadfully dull and pathetic life. But it's not really an escape from the real world. It's part of the real world. and thinking that it is not a part of the real world makes it something it is not.< Once again, jon, you're using absolute literal semantics to guide your argument. Most people understand the difference, but it seems to elude you. When people talk about the "real world", of course they're talking about their everyday lives and the routine of their day to day existence. By loose interpretation, any vacation can be considered an escape from reality, even though all vacation destinations by definition are also a part of our reality. Most of my vacations are to Disney parks, and are absolutely an escape from my reality.
Originally Posted By jonvn The problem is when you expect it to not be just a vacation, but some other extra thing. It's just a vacation. It's a resort. There are many of them all over the world, this one is very large. If people go in expecting it to be magic and divorced from reality, then it's not going to ever be good enough.
Originally Posted By danyoung Sorry, but I completely disagree. I think Disney resorts are among the few places where the experience can and does exceed what you were expecting. Of course us veterans know what to expect by now, but I'd just about guarantee that newbies are constanty surprised at how wonderful the place really is.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: It comes down to a matter of defintion, ducklings. My sisters and I tend to agree with you, danyoung, dear. But we also understand jonvn's point, too. He's a gosling who strives for harsh reality, whereas many of the rest of us strive for an escape from that. Coming from the Land of Prydain, which is also a fantasy, we still have to put up with the Horned King. That sort of reminds us that even fantasies can be marred by bad beings with frightful agendas. And jonvn, duckling, we have to tell you that your questions regarding Cynthia Harris have had an entire coven of witches rolling with laughter on the floor. I think that's the first post of yours--ever--that made us laugh. You really should indulge in more levity like that.
Originally Posted By cmash95 after reading through most of the posts in this thread, I figured I would try and wade in a bit with my two cents for what it is worth. THere exists at the walt disney corporation an atmosphere of mediocrity. This comes from the fact that most of the management in place today came from the creator of this mush, Micheal Eisner and many of the DOM's didnt know WDW or DL before he came into power. Well I did and so did TDLfan and Spirit. We remember when CM's were properly trained and the parks were so clean you could eat off the street and that isn't an exageration either. now I understand economies being what they are and things have to change but there are things that shouldn't. filthy ques and gum sticky to shoes should be something never tollerated, and don't get me started on attractions or merchandising. ok getting off my soapbox now.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << THere exists at the walt disney corporation an atmosphere of mediocrity. >> You're right. AOL Time Warner represents the pinnacle of achievement in the entertainment industry. That's where all the top notch people are working these days. On second thought, I think it's Knott's Berry Farm.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<This comes from the fact that most of the management in place today came from the creator of this mush, Micheal Eisner>> Okey dokey then. All credibility goes right out the window with that statement. Disney would more than likely not even exist as an independent company today if it weren't for Eisner. He was also responsible for some great achievement in the parks during his tenure, most significantly championing the creation of the Animal Kingdom. Yes, during his final years with the company he seemed burned out and did not pay attention to the parks like he should have. But to take away from the achievements of a man that has probably done more for Disney than anyone but Walt himself shows exactly where you are coming from and labels you as that most despicable of creatures, the common Disney basher.
Originally Posted By jonvn I remember what things were like before Eisner quite clearly. It was stagnant and falling apart. The quality of what Disney was making was exceedingly low. He raised the bar and EVERYTHING that people see today is the result of what he did, as he saved the place from being broken up into multiple different companies.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 >>Just something else to think about. Or maybe I should start talking about the REAL Cynthia Harriss or the exec at WDW that has used the College Program as his own gay sex club?<< haha please tell me this is BS
Originally Posted By Skellington88 >>after reading through most of the posts in this thread, I figured I would try and wade in a bit with my two cents for what it is worth. THere exists at the walt disney corporation an atmosphere of mediocrity. This comes from the fact that most of the management in place today came from the creator of this mush, Micheal Eisner and many of the DOM's didnt know WDW or DL before he came into power. Well I did and so did TDLfan and Spirit. We remember when CM's were properly trained and the parks were so clean you could eat off the street and that isn't an exageration either. now I understand economies being what they are and things have to change but there are things that shouldn't. filthy ques and gum sticky to shoes should be something never tollerated, and don't get me started on attractions or merchandising. ok getting off my soapbox now.<< Even though I was pretty young at the time I too remember when Disney maintained higher standards of excellence and the rides were actually awsome and not just tie-ins to the latest pixar film.
Originally Posted By jonvn If you were born after 1977, you basically do not remember what the place was like before eisner came along.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I remember what things were like before Eisner quite clearly. It was stagnant and falling apart. The quality of what Disney was making was exceedingly low. He raised the bar and EVERYTHING that people see today is the result of what he did, as he saved the place from being broken up into multiple different companies.< He did a marvelous job for almost 10 years -- and most grad schools acknowledge to effective life span of a CEO averages about 7 years - then they need to move on. Lou Gerstner - who woke up a stagnant IBM ( although he stole my damn pension in the process) - said exactly the same thing when hired - he resigned a few months after 7 years. Eisner just stayed too long. I think he really loved the gig, but started to think he WAS Walt after a period - then couldn't see the forest for the trees --and that happens easily when you surround yourself with yourself ( tip of the hat to Yes ) Some day I am willing to bet he will see that.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<I'm not telling you what an "escape" is or is not. I'm saying that the place is not a magical fairyland that exists outside of reality. It's a fun vacation destination and experience.>> It's MY VERSION of a magical fairyland. No, I don't expect it to be some perfect utopia free of flaws - those places don't exist, sweetheart. No one on this board who holds Disney to a higher standard has ever given me the impression that they believe WDW is supposed to be a perfect utopia. Calling it a "magical fairyland" is a figure of speech. <<The reason I say this is because this kind of attitude can create unrealistic and unmeetable expectations. You have to be a bit more pragmatic about things. It's a business, they try to entertain you, and you get to enjoy yourself. There are many venues and ways to do this sort of thing.>> As my 5th graders say, "Uh, DUH." No one on these boards think WDW is supposed to be a perfect place. We all realize it's part of the real world and will have it's real world issues. None of us are smoking those special cigarettes in that respect. We're adults, not 5 year olds. We all know that "Disney Magic" is the imaginative brillance of talented people called Imagineers, not some mystical force that only Imagineers are able to harness. So I don't think any of us are setting ourselves up for a major fall when we say that Disney is a magical place. And it IS a magical place and an escape if I want to think of it that way, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
Originally Posted By Mr X **None of us are smoking those special cigarettes in that respect.** Then you obviously haven't experienced the REAL Disney Magic then.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<The problem is when you expect it to not be just a vacation, but some other extra thing. It's just a vacation. It's a resort. There are many of them all over the world, this one is very large.>> Yeah, I DO expect it to be something extra, because that's one of the ideals on which Walt based the parks. He built DL as the antithesis of the typical amusement park/carnival, with its cheap rides, dirty atmosphere and surly employees. A large part of what makes Disney, well Disney, is its attention to detail and guest service. I can remember walking down Main Street and seeing trash swept up almost before it hit the ground. I can remember NEVER seeing rehabilitation work, such as painting, etc., going on in the middle of the day. I can remember Cms going out of their way to assist a guest. For crying out loud, when I worked at the Disney Store years ago, we were told that guest experience comes first. Not selling t-shirts or snowglobes, because back then the company realized that if you build a relationship with people, the t-shirts and the snowglobes will sell themselves. I remember being told never to point but to gesture with my hand. I remember being told on my first night working at the store that I wasn't smiling enough, even though my face felt like it was going to split open from smiling. I remember being told that we were never to tell a guest, "I don't know" in response to a question, but to either find the answer or find someone who knew the answer. I'm not expecting "something extra" fromt the parks. I'm expecting the same results and high level of service I received from Disney 15 years ago. That's what sets Disney apart and it plays an integral part in the "Disney Magic" (I'm putting it in quotes so you don't think that I believe it's REALLY magical and otherworldly).
Originally Posted By Mr X **I remember being told never to point but to gesture with my hand.** Interesting that they would have this as a rule in the Disney Stores...from what I've been told the reason they do it in the parks is because of all the international guests, pointing in some cultures is considered rude. Same reason TDR cast members are instructed not to pat children on the head...it's normal for Japanese to do so, but some other Asian cultures find it offensive.
Originally Posted By kennect I am breaking a rule I made for myself several months ago...But this is more an affirmation of it....Spirit has had some great things to say about what is happening with WDW...But he told me on one occasion that I should basically disown a nephew of mine that works at Walmart...When that was said I swore to myself I would never ever make another comment here on the WDW board....Now Spirit throws out some info about some stuff that he can't talk about...Personal info on Disney exec's...What a low blow to them and also to the LP community....Talk about what you can say, don't talk about what you can't say...Those creepy comments from Spirit just lessen his importance as being a true source of info in my mind....
