Originally Posted By TDLFAN Inspector57... do good to your codename and come down to WDW and inspect it yourself... You'll be surprised as well as disappointed in some aspects and areas of WDW as a whole.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 I haven't been arguing about whether there is good and bad at WDW. Of course there is both. This has been about whether Al Lutz has fostered a negative perspective on his website. He has.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<I don't find that to be a bad thing...>> It's SO surprising that you would say that. <-- rolls eyes TDLFAN, to me, at least, it's clear that your perspective on Al is tainted by the facts that: (A) You recently met Al, you liked him, and you are now feeling a personal desire to defend him. (B) You think of yourself as a critical, "call-it-as-I-see-it," self-sacrificing, and therefore sadly mis-understood Disney website poster. It's the same professional persona Al has adopted. Now let ME reveal a personal prejudice that has influenced my posts on this thread: (A) For three years running (2003, 2004, and 2005), my Big Vacation was a trip to Disneyland. It was to be THE annual several-days-long escape from the horror of my real life. Of course, part of the enjoyment of any vacation is the anticipation. Each year, I scoured Disney web-sites months in advance of my trip, looking for news and travel tips. What I found each time I looked at Lutz' website is that reading it DE-motivated me. It was ALL negative. Disney sucks. Disneyland sucks. Everything Disney-related sucks. Ann Hamburger sucks. DCA sucks. The 50th Anniversary Celebration will suck. The Space Mountain, Opera House, and fireworks make-overs will suck. Everything sucks. What a pisser. I finally came to realize that reading his site was giving me no real information that I wasn't getting elsewhere, and reading his site was just bringing me down. AND... after each of my visits, I found that he was mostly wrong. Al: DCA is an abomination. Me: DCA is FUN! A few problems, but fun, nonetheless! Al: "Aladdin" sucks. The carpet effect has BROKEN DOWN before! SCANDAL! This is a sure sign that Disney as we know it is going down the tubes!!! Me: "Aladdin" was GREAT! The carpet effect worked perfectly! Al: Disneyland has chipping paint! Here are close-ups! OMG! It's EVERYwhere! Me: Yeah, if I knew to look for it and I studied it hard enough, I could find it. Al: This Parade uses music that's been used before! Disney is going down the toilet! Me: The Parade sounds good to me. Al: The 50th won't be special. Me: It was VERY special. So reading his column has rained on my anticipation of my trips. And then my experiences at the Parks have shown me that things are not nearly as drama-queen, falling-apart, going-down-the-toilet bad as he's made it out to be. So when we talk about Al, am I personally bitter much? Maybe. He's promoted himself and his website at the expense of my enjoyment of my vacations. But mostly... (B) He shows a lack of integrity that I find personally abhorrant.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: I fail to see how Mr. Lutz has no integrity by simply telling the truth. His views of the Disney management have been very accurate. The negativity you read about in his articles comes from upper Disney management, itself, rather than Mr. Lutz. If management wasn't so corrupt, there would be no way Mr. Lutz could be reporting anything negative, himself. But if you're the type who wants to read nothing but sugar coated versions of what's going on behind the scenes, then you really shouldn't visit MiceAge to begin with. There are plenty of other web-footed sites out there that cater to those who would rather not know the ugly side of the company. So, from this point forward, if your trips are ruined by reading his reports, you really need to take responsibility for yourself and stop going there. ORWEN: I think it's mean spirited of ducklings to continually visit MiceAge and then proceed to bash Mr. Lutz--which only goes to show how 'negative' they are, themselves. Instead of just reading his articles and seeing what's really there, certain ducklings only see what they expect or want to see--Which ends up showing just how off balanced their view points are. ORDDU: And for those who do that, their own integrity is lost. ORWEN: By the way, Inspector57, duckling, maybe the reason you didn't see the same neglect, yourself, that Mr. Lutz pointed out is because it was taken care of by the time you got to the park. ORDDU: Which means you should be glad someone had the courage to point it out so it would be addressed before you arrived. Sometimes the squeaky wheel really does get the oil!
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct Well said Inspector 57. My first trip to DLR (since 1970) was three months after DCA opened. I had a blast. And felt EXACTLY as you described. I also got to meet Al in person. Nice guy. He was pleasant. And I said to him I enjoyed reading the website. I went on to add, "Could you just leave the facts to speak for themselves? And drop the snide comments. It detracts from your message". His response "Well, I got you to read it, didn't I .. " *sigh* I felt a little duped and decided to take his posts with a grain of salt. Over the years, I have been able to visit WDW 3 to 4 times a year, DLR twice more, and DLP a few more times. With the frequent visits (especially WDW) I find myself seeing more of both Al's and TDLFAN's points of view. And I think it takes a frequent visitor to see some of their points of view. Maybe I have just "lost the magic" due to overexposure at WDW. That has got to be it. Because I now see a lot what Al and TDLFAN say for myself at WDW. WDW has let itself slip over the years. I have come to see it after frequently visiting 3-4 times a year since 1993. As a Disney fan, I am happy I can still visit DLR. and DLL with much enthusiasm and magic - but I do not feel compelled to visit WOW like I used to. I live in Connecticut - am I suppose to get the same attitudes of those who treat WOW like a local mall?!?! I mean, if an out-of-state guest like ME can see these points - it's getting kind of bad there, no? In my opinion, the investments in these VAST WDW parks is too much for management to handle. As TDLFAN and Al often say: the size of the property works against them. It is an asset and a failing. The WDW management CAN'T get a grip on keeping the "show" fresh and compelling anymore. There is a neglect in the "showmanship" indeed - which is the root of the Disney experience. For myself, I am driven to visit and be a fan of the Disney parks by the creative talent. I work as an Art Director in Marketing and went to school for Industrial Design. When I got to Disney as an adult, I learned to see it as "a celebration of creativity". I now marvel at each and every detail. I wonder in my mind what was "the thinking" behind the design I am admiring as I walk through the parks. Enjoying each design decision, seeing the logic of how it came to be. And on another level, I feel like I am part of some big interactive theater, playing a role. The environments trigger a sense of "play" in my mind and I get lost in the mood and environment of the place. The design or SHOW is THAT GOOD! now THAT is Disney. What is NOT Disney? The awful embarrassing place called Walt Disney Studios Paris. The cheap parking lot feel of many areas of DCA like Paradise Pier. Staring at a hotel looming over me while I am trying to feel immersed in an environment. Chester and Hester carnival crap in one of the most beautiful places of all - Animal Kingdom. The creative force is no longer in power. It is the business force. Well, there needs to be a balance, sure - I get it. But what make the *MAGIC* is the creative talent. I support the talent. And I think all Al and TDLFAN are showing us all is - the creative talent "power" is being overshadowed by "business" people who don't have an understanding of Disney's core essence. I see some of the points as I said above. Some comments, I still roll my eyes and read with a grain of salt. I mean ... we still need to keep reading. Right, AL?
Originally Posted By avromark <<(A) For three years running (2003, 2004, and 2005), my Big Vacation was a trip to Disneyland. It was to be THE annual several-days-long escape from the horror of my real life>> Do me a favour and never move to Fling Mi, or Love Canal in NY. My next Disney trip however will be WDW. Fact/community driven sites like LP, Mouseplanet. Or we have sites that have evolved like Disney Forever, and Mouse Info. Then we have the more sensational/speculation sites like Mice Age and Jim Hill. I look at it this way, we have community driven sites like DIS, WDWMagic. It's a shame to see sites like Just Disney that stopped updating years ago. But at least Disney is covered by a broad spectrum giving different views on Disney. At least we have a choice were we get our information. I apologize to the other sites I go to for not mentioning them
Originally Posted By gadzuux I think both points of view expressed have validity. Al does tend to pile on unnecessarily, or pick insignificant nits to carp about. But al's usually right. He may be more shrill about it than some people are comfortable with, but his points are valid. Certainly he's a thorn in the side of TDA. Most of his complaints about DLR during the pressler/harriss era were valid. We see that by the actions of ouimet to improve the park - he went after the same issues that al had been highlighting for years. As a result, the park improved immeasureably by focusing on exactly the same issues that al had been vocal about. The end result is that the park is more beautiful and more successful than it's ever been. It's highly unlikely that al will take on WDW in the same crusade-like fashion that he's shown for DLR. For one thing, he lives in california and is unlikely to visit florida more than once or twice a year. And it's just a guess, but I'm thinking that his heart just isn't it - he doesn't have the affinity or connection to the florida parks in the same way he does for DLR - he doesn't care as much. So yes - al is far from perfect, and he's been known to have a vindictive streak against people he doesn't like. He doesn't claim to be an objective reporter and his opinions are his own. But as much as he's an annoyance to his detractors and to disney - they know he's right.
Originally Posted By CMM1 Having just been to WDW in August, I feel that Al Lutz's article makes some good points about the parks. I think his point about AK is well taken - you have a park that is really supposed to be about animals: real, mythical or extinct - aside from the new Yeti ride, it doesn't much do anything with the middle concept. I would also agree with his assessment of Epcot's dated Universe of Energy Ellen show, the crummy new Imagination ride and the odd mix of attractions at the Land pavilion. Lastly, I would agree with his feelings about the Magic Kingdom - Space Mountain and Splash Mountain both seemed a bit tired. This time around, I was particularly struck by how the transition area between Tomorrowland and Fantasyland is so dated and really doesn't present any "magic" - you have the annoying Indy cars attraction right across from what is a large and very pedestrian eating establishment. While I suppose it is worthwhile to look at management structures within an organization and how it might affect things in an amusement park, my overall concern would not be about who is doing what - my only concern is having a nice resort experience and feeling I'm getting my money's worth. At this point, I think a WDW vacation is a bit overpriced for the quality of what you get at the WDW resort and it's parks. Just comparing WDW with DLP (which I visited last June 05) and DL (Sept 05), WDW seemed to be the least well-maintained of the three resorts.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Ok CMM1 - I am now concerned. I find the standard of maintenance at DLP to be woefully inadequate. I know in 2000, while the MK and the live entertainment were poor compared to DL and DLP, the maintenance and cleanliness were far better at WDW than DLP. Has this now changed? Because of the exchange rate and better guest experience in the past, we have opted to go to WDW instead of DLP this Christmas. I am worried that with the dumbing down of menus, lack of maintenance, and growing crowds, our experience will not be as good as I am hoping.
Originally Posted By leemac <<And thank you Leemac for offering your insights as well. You are one of the reasons I continue to vist these boards - along with Darkbeer.>> Thanks Dennis for the kind compliment. We try and be very different here at LP and I think we achieve it for the most part. There isn't another site out there that has the coverage of international parks and other elements of Disney's operations that we do and I'm proud to be a part of LP.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN ^^^..and where are my thanks for making such dedicated contributions to your "International Coverage" reputation on the Net on behalf of LP??? >>Ok CMM1 - I am now concerned. I find the standard of maintenance at DLP to be woefully inadequate. I know in 2000, while the MK and the live entertainment were poor compared to DL and DLP, the maintenance and cleanliness were far better at WDW than DLP.<< Davewasbaloo... I am here to confirm that based on my recent visits to both WDW and DLP, the cleanliness is far better at WDW. DLP has got a long way to go to catch up and the recent renovations there are only a very small contribution towards a better experience in Paris. But as long as guests continue to trash the park right and left and management does not see an urgency to clean up agreesively... all of the beauty and refurbishings at DLP won't make up for that slip in quality.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: My sisters and I hear you, TDLFAN, duckling and we always appreciate your photos and comments about the over-seas parks. ORGOCH: Just make sure ya keep 'em comin'!!!
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct <<^^^..and where are my thanks for making such dedicated contributions to your "International Coverage" reputation on the Net on behalf of LP???>> A thousand pardons Oh Birthday Boy *It's TODAY !!!* Happy Brithday to .. yoooouuuu
Originally Posted By DigitalDisney "From here on rather than detail each day's activities at the parks, I'll just focus on the individual problems they are all having that take away from the visitor experience." At least he was honest about it. Also, at least we didn't have to prepare a microwaved burrito and a 64oz Jolt Cola (c) to read this opinion. My gripe is that his article isn't the least bit fair. He doesn't go to WDW that often, and decided to heavily critique the parks instead of having fun. He also had several big inaccuracies in his opinion. If he needed to, he could have easily had a detailed article for each park, and make it an epic series. If he truly had a great time on the trip, then I don't know why he didn't take that route... Anyways, many of his big complaints are pretty darned obvious. HM and SM are outdated, the new Tiki Room sucks, DinoRama is tacky, the Sorcerer's hat needs to be moved, and Imagination needs an overhaul. Derrrrrr. I really don't know why he left the Universal parks unscathed. There wasn't a single negative comment about USO in his opinion. Some of his complaints about WDW are just as valid or worse at Universal. For example, the awesome and incredibly themed Lost Continent at IOA exists in the same park as whack-a-mole and other carnival games! The same goes with the outstanding Mummy ride and other carnival games (along with the staff that actively try to get you to play their games)! Shocking! Also consider the horrifying "unthemed exit" found in several Universal rides (including The Mummy). Maybe it's possible that Al knew how to have fun at Universal but went back to being hyper-critical as soon as he got on WDW property? I can't defend Dino-Rama too much because I do think that it is tacky, although still well-themed (and fun). Dinosaur is awesome, and Primeval Whirl is fun (even if it doesn't belong in a Disney park). But complaining that whack-a-mole is in the same park as the safaris is stretching it a bit. It's not like they're right next to each other. The same goes with Mission Space and Chefs de France (also at opposite ends of the park). It seems like Al may have liked AK the best (of the WDW parks), but he never explains things that he liked. I can't begin to describe my frustration with his opinion of Epcot. He didn't describe The Land correctly (did he even go inside?). I doubt he set foot inside Imagination at all, let alone Mexico, Norway, SSE, or Innoventions. The worst part was when he complained about attraction/eatery/show times. They are clearly printed on the entertainment/time guide, which is easy to acquire from just about anywhere in the park. Surely these exist over at DLR. Even so, the only things that close early any more are Innoventions, Energy, Circle of Life, and at least one of the Imagination attractions (low priority stuff). Everything else is major and stays open until the park closes. In fact, every WDW park has attractions and restaurants that don't have the same hours as the park. I suppose this goes without saying, but I'm very skeptical of Al's opinion here. I doubt he actually experienced a whole lot of attractions. He probably formed his opinions ahead of time, put on his blinders, and looked for small things to confirm these opinions instead of letting loose and having a blast. That being said, I kinda agree with his bottom line. WDW is just too big to be impeccibly maintained. Instead of spending money to upgrade and maintain existing attractions, money must instead be spent on building new items to keep up with the local competition. Whew. The end.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj I would appreciate the musings at MiceAge a lot better if they weren't presented as some sort of journalism or web magazine. Essentially, the opinions there are nothing more than a blog. How about the authors there present their opinions like every other blog on the web and let visitors critique their work at the bottom of the page in a comments section?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<dont bash Al Lutz...he played a signifant role in ousting pressler, harris, and even Eisner.>> That is the most absurd comment I've read on LP (outside of those on World Events) since I've been here . You want to know how much impact Al Lutz and all the other fan-boys of the world had on the removal of Eisner?? Absolutely none. Eisner was dumped because of dissatisfaction with the performance of Disney stock over the past eight years or so. And that poor performance had much more to do with acquisition miss-steps and bad programming and movie decisions than it had to do with the theme parks. In fact most years the Theme Parks are one of the most profitable divisions of Disney. So don't kid yourself. There is not one Disney Executive that gives a rat’s patootie about anything Al Lutz or any other fan-boy has to say about WDW. Unless you also hold a boat-load of Disney stock... then they care.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 Thank you, Dennis, for "getting" my point of view. And -- at the risk of sounding reciprocal -- GREAT POST! I especially love your description of the "Disney-ness" of being able to lose yourself in the ingeniously-designed environment/details/mood/theater. <<I fail to see how Mr. Lutz has no integrity by simply telling the truth.>> <<But if you're the type who wants to read nothing but sugar coated versions of what's going on behind the scenes, then you really shouldn't visit MiceAge to begin with.>> Very sly, Orddu. But you're not tricking me. You may be an old bat, but I know you're sharp enough to understand that you're presenting a false dilemma. If someone criticises someone who's criticising Disney, that does NOT mean the first person is a naive, Pollyanna-ish softie who needs to be shielded from all negativity regarding The Company. MiceAgers use this false dilemma argument routinely as a defense. "You don't like the content here? Then YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!" Puh-lease, Louise. I can handle negative news. I value The Truth. I'm one of the most cynical people I know. And I'm mature enough that I can integrate stinging, honest criticism of The Disney Company with the fact that I love "it's a small world," DTD's Uva Bar, and "Spy Kids." Criticising MiceAge, in my case at least, is not an indication that I cannot handle the truth. It's a lament that there isn't a better balance there of the truly good along with the truly bad. In fact, overall, I don't find "The Truth" on that website. I find someone who's going out of his way to present a distorted image of the truth by dwelling on the negative. <<if your trips are ruined by reading his reports, you really need to take responsibility for yourself and stop going there.>> Perhaps I'm a slow learner. Perhaps I tend to hope for the better and give people the benefit of the doubt. For whatever reason, it took me years to admit to myself that reading Al Lutz was costing me more than it was giving me. And, upon that sad admission, I DID stop reading him. <<I think it's mean spirited of ducklings to continually visit MiceAge and then proceed to bash Mr. Lutz--which only goes to show how 'negative' they are, themselves.>> Al Lutz publishes a PUBLIC website. On it, he takes pride in being snarky and critical. He's putting himself out there in that light. So how is it "mean" or "negative" to criticize what he's written? It seems to me that now YOU are being the Pollyanna who won't abide any criticism of the institution you love. On the other hand, as I wrote previously, I think it's sweet that you defend your friend. <<ORWEN: By the way, Inspector57, duckling, maybe the reason you didn't see the same neglect, yourself, that Mr. Lutz pointed out is because it was taken care of by the time you got to the park. ORDDU: Which means you should be glad someone had the courage to point it out so it would be addressed before you arrived. Sometimes the squeaky wheel really does get the oil!>> To the extent that Al had any influence on improving the quality of the guest experience at Disneyland these past few years, I'm grateful to him. As I've already written, one of the reasons I find it painful to read Al's columns is that I think he's squandering his potential to influence The Company by coming off as so totally, intractibly negative. I wish he would write in a style that would cause the decision-makers to take him more seriously. Name-calling and gratuitous mud-slinging doesn't help in that regard. <<I would appreciate the musings at MiceAge a lot better if they weren't presented as some sort of journalism or web magazine.>> <<Fact/community driven sites like LP, Mouseplanet. Then we have the more sensational/speculation sites like Mice Age and Jim Hill.>> I think that gets at the core of my problems with Al. I remember him from when he was running a true information-based Disney website. Personally, that's how I still want him to be. I want to be able to get his insights and knowledge and humor and great photos without all the snarky, bitchy, self-aggrandizing, nasty comments. But he has re-defined himself and his website. He is no longer info-based; he's personality-based. He doesn't offer help for fans and visitors; he offers gossip and complaints for the Disney-jaded. Have at it.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Part of my upset with him is because he DOES have good insights and good connections. He has a real potential ability to effect positive change for us fans. But he consistently undermines his own credibility with his own negative grandstanding. >>> And there are certainly people that use the negative or annoying aspects of his writing style to discount what he says. In fact, in some cases, if someone is for the Disney status quo and want to oppose a certain thing, all they need to do is point out that Al Lutz supports it and they immediately justify their position in some people's view.
