Originally Posted By a1stav "I don't find "The Truth" on that website." I find Miceage one of the best sources of "Truthiness" on the web.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Yes, DigitalDisney, duckling, Mr. Lutz DID go inside and ride all the attractions that you listed. In fact, a whole group of his friends went with him--my sisters and myself included. So, we can attest to that much. And your implication that Mr. Lutz was lying when he made such a claim is a perfect example of what my sisters and I call mean spirited. You weren't even there yet you presume to know more than you do. ORWEN: He also stated in his article why he didn't talk too much about Universal--because his article was supposed to be mostly about Walt Disney World. He only made a few comparisons between the two parks. ORDDU: As for you, Inspector57, duckling, you're entitled to your opinions but if the truth be told, you're the one who's presenting a false dilemma by coming across with some sort of melo-dramatic reaction to Mr. Lutz and his articles. For a moment, while reading some of your passionate reactions to what he has said on his site, you actually had me wondering if you were about to have a nervous breakdown over the whole matter. In any event, everyone judges people differently. Since some of us have had the priviledge of knowing Mr. Lutz, personally, we see him in a totally different light. We appreciate his courage for telling the truth because some of us still have hope that--some day--the Disney Company will return to the higher standards of operation that it used to be famous for. ORWEN: And as we said earlier, there are certain Imagineers who agree that the Disney Company lost it's way a long time ago and doesn't care about giving the guest their money's worth as much as they did so many years ago. But that's not something that makes Mr. Lutz 'negative'. It's what makes the Disney Company 'negative. ORDDU: So, for those of you who insist on shooting the messenger--instead of admitting who the REAL negative culprits are--you really need to go back and reconsider your positions; that is, if you still care about good quality and good showmanship at a Disney Theme park... ORWEN: But you shouldn't expect the rest of us to accept mediocre service or poor maintenance on attractions just because you're willing to. It's good that there are still champions around who hold the Disney Company's feet to the fire and won't let them get away with destroying Uncle Walt's original vision--just because they think they can.
Originally Posted By danyoung >Since some of us have had the priviledge of knowing Mr. Lutz, personally, we see him in a totally different light.< Y'know what? I'm getting a little tired of this argument. I've never met the guy, and 99% of the people here and on other sites have never met the guy. All we can comment on is his writing and his online attitude. And when you have people all over the internet going "oh dear, I better reconsider my upcoming trip to WDW if it's really that horrible!", then there's a HUGE problem with his presentation. And please don't say I'm over-reacting, as I've read 5 of those posts from 5 different people just today! I've said all along that I'm all for holding Disney's feet to the fire. But go back and reread Al's big post - it's at least 80 to 90% NEGATIVE! He threw out a few bones, but he was very clear in his message that WDW currently is in hideous shape, and left a very clear implication that it's so bad that there's just no reason for people to spend their money to go there. I don't give a monkey's behind about his love for Disney parks (which I know he has), or whether or not he has some kind of agenda or a need for recognition or a God complex. All I care about is that this one post from a guy who is respected in the Disney online community has people reconsidering taking a vacation to the place that every danged one of us knows is still pretty incredible. He's out of balance on the negative side, and I really wish he'd rein it in.
Originally Posted By kennect OH come on Witch's...You would say anything to get a man, wouldn't you? Just kidding.....
Originally Posted By oc_dean I know Lutz's writing style is not the greatest, but who is? However, when I compare what I see going on in the DLR, which I can, on a normal basis since I live in the area ...... I see that what he says, and what is the reality in the park, are pretty right-on. So, I can get through his writing style .. and still enjoy some good updates regarding the parks.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I know Lutz's writing style is not the greatest, but who is? However, when I compare what I see going on in the DLR, which I can, on a normal basis since I live in the area ...... I see that what he says, and what is the reality in the park, are pretty right-on.>> Well of course. And you tell me... what kind of shape was Disneyland in before it started to get spiffed up for the 50th? Everything I've read from that time period indicates that DL was in far WORSE shape than WDW. I don't think the comparative position of the two resorts means anything at this point. Let's see where things sit five years from now.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>what kind of shape was Disneyland in before it started to get spiffed up for the 50th?<< Not that great Trippy. And I cannot comment on the comparison between WDW and DLR since I have not been to WDW since 1995. At that time though, I was pretty sad their sub ride was sitting defunct .. along with two Skyway stations just sitting their collecting dust .. and the Walt Disney Story, Main St. Cinema, and Penny Arcade all turned into merchandise locations. And I'm glad I made on to Horizons, the original Journey into Imagination, and World of Motion just in time. Come to think of it ... WDW's management was mirroring DL's at that time. "Just shut things down .. and don't get around to replacing them with anything decent, if ever." The mantra on both coasts.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<The mantra on both coasts.>> My hope is that the WDW people will see the success of the DL refurbishments and decide to go down the same road. I'm truly hopeful it will happen. As I said in my trip reports from DL earlier this summer; every time there was a significant difference between the DL attraction and its WDW clone, I thought the DL attraction was noticeably better. WDW needs to follow in DL’s footsteps.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Well, kennect, duckling--now that you mention it, yes! At least one witch in this coven WILL do anything to get a man--and I'm NOT kidding...you wouldn't happen to be available, would you??????????
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom danyoung, I think you basically just summed it all up. There clearly are people questioning where or not they should go on vacation to WDW after reading Mr Lutz article.
Originally Posted By danyoung >So, I can get through his writing style .. and still enjoy some good updates regarding the parks.< I can too - it's all that grain of salt thing. But obviously some people are taking his every word as gospel. And that's the problem.
Originally Posted By Mr X >>>Maybe I have just "lost the magic" due to overexposure at WDW. That has got to be it. Because I now see a lot what Al and TDLFAN say for myself at WDW. WDW has let itself slip over the years. I have come to see it after frequently visiting 3-4 times a year since 1993. As a Disney fan, I am happy I can still visit DLR. and DLL with much enthusiasm and magic - but I do not feel compelled to visit WOW like I used to.<<< OMG!!!! <===MR. X DROPS DEAD FROM SHOCK! Pollyanna, what HAPPENED to you!? Geez, I remember YOU attacking Al Lutz & Co. viciously for their portrayal of WDSP, just before you went to see for yourself (I recall the kind retraction too though, very cool). lol...this is a very cool, though heated, thread. I do believe that WDW has gone downhill, and Dennis noticing is VERY significant to me, more than Lutz or TDLFAN, or other normally "critical" types such as myself...since he's generally easygoing and has fun and doesn't mind small flaws or inconveniences. I agree to some extent that they can't really focus on EVERYTHING at once, or so it seems, so now that they've spruced up Anaheim (and it looked AWSOME when I was there last year), maybe they can turn their attention to Orlando. Marc, I can understand your resentment. I think that's what upsets a lot of people re. the negative commentaries we see on the net. For me though, it has the opposite effect. If I read a lot of negative, I go in with lowered expectations and generally end up pleased that things were better (to me, anyway) than reported. Case in point was my recent first time cruise on the Carnival Fascination. I read a lot on the 'net from "cruise geeks" who, like us Disney geeks, can be picky and unforgiving. It was my understanding that my ship was one step away from being turned into a garbage scow, the lack of things to do would kill me from boredom, and the food would make any human violently ill (the recommendation was to stick to cereal only and purchase your own milk while in port). Somehow, it turned out to be a nice trip. lol. The ship was older, but plenty roomy and fun to explore. There was lots to do. The food was yummy. Fun was had by me (FGM didn't like it much ). Anyway, I could see how picky people would find flaws though, if they'd been on lots of cruises or whatever (SOME commentaries, like the above about the food though, were pretty silly). But for me (regular guest), no worries. I was just happy to be there. So, Dennis, now that you're so jaded, why not skip the next 6 or 8 monthly trips to WDW and COME VISIT JAPAN!!
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>I've said all along that I'm all for holding Disney's feet to the fire. But go back and reread Al's big post - it's at least 80 to 90% NEGATIVE! He threw out a few bones, but he was very clear in his message that WDW currently is in hideous shape, and left a very clear implication that it's so bad that there's just no reason for people to spend their money to go there. << We are infrequent WDW visitors (last time was 3 years ago), and I have to admit that I agree with many of Al's comments regarding the "staleness" of many parts of WDW. But to be fair, even with all its recently received TLC there is staleness in DLR as well. But WDW is a lot more stale that DLR. That said, I found that there was much in WDW to offset the staleness and make a visit worthwhile, especially for someone who is used to DLR.
Originally Posted By fkurucz I would also advise DLR fans visiting WDW for the first time to not compare MK with DL. Doing so would perhaps be the biggest cause of disappointment in a WDW visit.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros For the record, Al said that he saw a lot of good things on his trip, but he just wanted to bring the negative things to the attention of some people. ALthough he didn't really go into much detail about the good stuff, there was a little and the disclaimer at the beginning. It isn't like he had the worst time ever, but there were just things that really need to be improved upon.
Originally Posted By hopemax >Well of course. And you tell me... what kind of shape was Disneyland in before it started to get spiffed up for the 50th? Everything I've read from that time period indicates that DL was in far WORSE shape than WDW. Honestly, I am getting concerned that this is not the case. Or it may be the case now, but not for long. I think WDW has done a better job of "applying the makeup" every morning. So things get painted and polished, lightbulbs replaced. My concerns about what you don't see, or maybe things that are harder for a layman to see because there is still so much overwhelming of the senses. Was the Liberty Belle an isolated instance? I can hear and see that the Haunted Mansion is a mess (and I have a friend who has gotten into a shouting match with Lee Cockerell over its condition). I can feel how bad the track on Space Mountain has gotten. I have been told how often Splash Mountain and Buzz go 101. I know that park & resort revenues are up 11% for the first 3 quarters, and operating income is up 31%, and prices have been raised twice there. But there is not enough cash for the CBJ makeover. DL seems to be increasing its commitment to holidays while at the same time WDW is cutting back their commitments. And I'm hearing rumors that "safety only" maintence is the only thing allowed. No show plussing, not hings like updated sound systems for Pirates. If there was someone like Al for WDW, we might have a better idea of what is going on as far as staffing. All I've heard is it's bad. Earlier this year, I was doing some reading of old Disney articles. In 1989, WDW paid their employees 33% over Florida's minimum wage (wages started at $5.05 at WDW, minimum wage was $3.35). Now minimum wage is $6.67 and Disney pays $6.90 while Sea World and Universal were at $7.25. That has to have an effect, not only on face-to-face customer service but the efficiency of the resort. And the people that do get hired, don't stay long. At least at Disneyland, there was still a level of mystique that kept some good people interested in Disney, and some of the old guard hanging on so they could help when Matt came in. I'm not sure who at WDW is there to fight the good fight. I know people don't want to think that the company in which they have invested so much time, love and money could fall victim to the same crap that infects so much of American businesses. But I think it's even worse than that. Which major companies would put a human resources manager in charge of operations for one of its biggest profit centers? That is not a move that instills confidence, especially with the direction the human resources have taken. I think there are dark days for WDW ahead. They may be masked by the uptick that all businesses have been benefiting from as we've moved farther away from 9/11. But there are time bombs in the economy, and there are time bombs at WDW so IMO, it's a house of cards.
Originally Posted By hopemax > Now minimum wage is $6.67 and Disney pays $6.90 while Sea World and Universal were at $7.25. Or it will be $6.67 in Jan, it's $6.40 now.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>I know that park & resort revenues are up 11% for the first 3 quarters, and operating income is up 31%<< This is sign that there has been major cost cutting (operating income rising must faster than revenue). Some of it may be attributed to fixed costs, but it sure seems like expenditures are being held back. >>I know people don't want to think that the company in which they have invested so much time, love and money could fall victim to the same crap that infects so much of American businesses.<< So true and so sad.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>Pollyanna, what HAPPENED to you!?<< Someone call Jane Wyman!! Sounds like Dennis needs a healthy dose of the GLAD GAMES!!! Or else, maybe a visit to TDR would restore the faith..???
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Well, after reading all this, all I can say is oh goodie, my wife and I leave for WDW for the first time ever the Saturday after Thanksgiving and return the following Saturday. She's been planning this for years.
