Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Obama has responded to the online White House petition to deport Piers Morgan: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/response/when-discussing-second-amendment-keep-first-mind-too
Originally Posted By ecdc That was a great response, and a reminder that the people most worried about tyranny seem the most willing to impose it on those they disagree with.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I get that. But I'd query, why on earth would anyone "love" firearms?" Isn't that a little bit like asking someone why they love Disney or cars or airplanes? Assuming that firearms are owned solely for the sake of protecting oneself, collecting hobby or hunting, I don't have a problem with someone having a gun fetish. What worries me are crazy people like Jones who see nothing wrong with an ordinary citizen possessing a weapon designed for war and equate violent gun death toll to people dying from the flu. These scary individuals are prepared for some kind of imaginary apocalypse and it's frightening.
Originally Posted By Tikiduck Jones is, to gun ownership, what the shirtless painted guys, standing three hours in a snowstorm, are to football fans. Not only that, but I agree with the notion that he was playing his Morgan gig for everything it was worth.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Isn't that a little bit like asking someone why they love Disney or cars or airplanes?<< No, because those things exist for a purpose beyond shooting another living thing. Which is why I put in the caveat about target shooting. Otherwise, it's difficult for me to imagine why anyone would have a collection or a hobby that essentially revolves around paranoia and death. There are plenty of hobbies I don't share or have any interest in - car restoration, knitting...hell, I don't even really get the football obsession in this country. But I at least understand why those things are appealing to others. Guns strike me personally as an infantile hobby. Yes, I'm being politically incorrect...impolitic. But there it is.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Otherwise, it's difficult for me to imagine why anyone would have a collection or a hobby that essentially revolves around paranoia and death." Since I have no interest or need for a firearm, I’m in complete agreement. Losing the right to own a gun would mean nothing to me since I’m almost certain that I’ll never have one. However, I see nothing particularly odd or harmful about having an interest or fascination with guns in certain contexts. What seriously concerns me is the accessibility of dangerous weapons to people like Jones, who I imagine has a basement full of ammunition in preparation for "the revolution" and organizations like the NRA that work to ensure that gun manufacturers continue to reap profits from paranoid people like him, all while pretending that guns aren't hazardous to society at large. Frankly, as much as I'd love for guns to be outlawed completely, the debate needs to stay focused on ensuring that the most dangerous weapons are banned and kept out of the hands of people like this Jones a-hole. He probably wouldn't shoot up a bunch of kindergartners, but I’d be wary if I worked with him or lived in his neighborhood.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Guns strike me personally as an infantile hobby*** I think you're going a LITTLE far on this one, although I can easily agree that I don't really *get* gun ownership (or collecting). I did a fair amount of shooting in boy scouts, and it was okay but I didn't love it, I preferred archery. But to call it infantile, I would say that. Some people love and appreciate cars, model airplanes, antiques, stamps, and Disney pins, too. None of those really appeals to me, but only one of them is really infantile. (and this is in reference to "loving" guns, which I would assume doesn't apply so much to hunters or target shooters who love the sport but don't get all that attached to the tool - I love drumming but I'm not a huge collector of drumsticks nor do I care much about them as long as they are well crafted and work properly - probably the majority of gun owners feel the same I would guess)
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>Are all gun owners crazy? Absolutely not. Are many of them a little too attached to their guns and a little too divorced from the reality of firearm violence? Absolutely.<< ^^^^ This! Movies like Christmas Story .. with Ralphie's obsession with the Red Rider Bibbi Gun ... are classic exambles of a "love" for fire arms - which I don't find healthy - at all! Not just decades .. but centuries .. it's built into the American Psyché as 'normal'.
Originally Posted By oc_dean And if I may throw in ... I have no understanding for people who shoot animals for sport. I don't get that. If you have to for sustenance, or self defense ... perfectly understandable .... to just shoot living creatures because you think it's fun - I find that just twisted. Simple word - Killer.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "And if I may throw in ... I have no understanding for people who shoot animals for sport. I don't get that. If you have to for sustenance, or self defense ... perfectly understandable .... to just shoot living creatures because you think it's fun - I find that just twisted." Agreed. Funny, I was actually thinking about this on the way home from work today. Shooting animals for fun is just senseless to me.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>I take it you're a vegan, then?<< In case you missed it ... my friend .... ..... I did say .. for SUSTENANCE, and self defense. I don't argue for those reasons.
Originally Posted By Mr X I don't see why anyone should have to have reasons other than "I want to do it", when it comes to hunting. Otherwise, you start down a slippery slope. Are you okay with fishing? Stepping on ants? How about medical research, is it okay to kill an animal for that, but not for pleasure? If so, why? The animal being killed has no idea whether it's "business or pleasure", so what's the difference? So anyway, while I don't have any desire to go hunting myself, I find it impossibly hypocritical to complain about it while I continue to patronize McDonalds. One could argue that we are even worse, we want the meat but prefer to have our killing outsourced!
Originally Posted By oc_dean Hey Hans .... over in my neck of the woods .. we have what's called the Australian Brush Turkey: <a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Australian_Brush_turkey2.jpeg" target="_blank">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi...ey2.jpeg</a> Part of me thinks it's weird to see creatures like this roaming around developed areas. I am on the edge of Ku Ring Gai Chase National Park .... and I find it amazing how lots of wild life is just roaming around the streets. There's such a respect for wild life here .. tight gun laws ... Gees .. if this were the U.S. ... these turkeys would have been hunted and killed to extinction long ago. But here they are ... people just leave them alone. One of the nice perks in a country with good gun laws, and a general respect for nature!
Originally Posted By oc_dean I don't see why this is so hard to comprehend Mr. X ..... If you have good reason to kill that animal .. who's going to begrudge you? If you can stare down the eyes of a rabbit, and say I'm going to end your life for the thrill of it ... and no other reason ........... Do I really need to say anymore ... to make the distinction between the two? I think it's quite clear.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I think it's quite clear*** Indeed it is. You prefer to have your killing done for you. I doubt the bunny really cares one way or the other.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***If you have good reason to kill that animal .. who's going to begrudge you?*** Clearly you've not encountered many militant left-wing vegans in your travels.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Wow .. we are really sidetracking the point here. You're not listening to my main point. Again ... for sustenance, and other important needs .... I won't argue it. Just to shoot .. and leave the animal dead on the ground .. and leave the maggets to devour the body later .... I think that type of killing is senseless!
Originally Posted By oc_dean And if you can't listen to me on this .. please don't respond. I'm not a believer in Shooting For Sport! For important needs .... Do what you got to do. You want to take a whack at a living creature just for the fun of it? I think that's sick! And that's my opinion. Nothing more!
Originally Posted By Mr X ***And if you can't listen to me on this .. please don't respond*** Okay, then.
