Originally Posted By oc_dean You'll have to pardon me on this Mr. X .... seems what I read in a few posts back - If it's okay to kill for sustenance ... then it's okay to kill for the sake of the desire to kill. You don't find something wrong with that? But we'll give it a rest. I'd rather not metaphorically ring your neck on this subject ... lets get at each others throats about Disney stuff instead.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "One of the nice perks in a country with good gun laws, and a general respect for nature!" What's the general perception of the US gun debate from your friends and associates down there?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan It'd be great if we could sideline screamers like this Jones fellow and let grown ups discuss what to do about gun deaths in this country. There really is a reasonable middle ground between "no one should have a gun" and "everyone should have all the guns they want." But the key word is reasonable. Start by saying, "Is there anything we can do to prevent the many accidental gun deaths that occur?" In terms of solving gun problems, that's low hanging fruit. Require that gun ownership must include regular training and retraining in the methods of safely handling, transporting and storing a weapon. That is a matter of public safety, and it is a much less complex problem that will indeed save a lot of lives every single year. It's that "well regulated" part of the 2nd amendment that a lot of people like to skim right past. I've gotten my last several drivers licenses by mail. No testing, just because I haven't gotten tickets doesn't mean that perhaps I am a perfect driver, that I have no bad driving habits. I try to drive safely, but I bet a quick refresher course might make me a safer driver just the same. Likewise, I don't care how long someone has been a gun owner. Just because they haven't shot someone doesn't mean they are necessarily doing everything with the utmost care. People get comfortable, a little too confident, and then that can lead to tragedy. None of that stomps on anyone's rights. It isn't an unreasonable thing. The fee for this stuff could be paid for through licensing fees paid for by gun owners. The causes of something like the Newtown and movie theater killings are complex and complicated, but simply making sure gun owners are educated into the responsibilities that come with owning a weapon would be a reasonable place to start. Do we still do reasonable in this country?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan With some truly comprehensive gun education, beyond how to load and aim and hit a target and fear the black helicopters, perhaps the Newtown killer's mother might have come to understand that giving her son access to weapons, or using them as a bonding moment with him, was an incredibly stupid idea. In the moment before he shot her, I'm sure it suddenly seemed clear but obviously that is way too late. The training should begin with "Am I Ready to Be a Gun Owner?" And then delve into all the particular reasons why someone should not have guns, including having people who are mentally unstable in their lives.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt “It'd be great if we could sideline screamers like this Jones fellow and let grown ups discuss what to do about gun deaths in this country. There really is a reasonable middle ground between "no one should have a gun" and "everyone should have all the guns they want."” Yep, and it only exacerbates the issue when the Jones type screamers terrify the masses via internet, radio and TV. Did you catch Rush Limbaugh's radio response yesterday following Biden's comments at the White House meeting with gun safety advocates yesterday? In the meeting, Biden was quoted as saying that if Congress fails to act quickly on gun safety measures the admiration would consider what legal rights it has to issue executive orders on the matter. Biden didn't elaborate, but that didn't stop Limbaugh from going off the deep end and warning his listeners that Obama is planning what he calls a "gun grab".
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Did you catch Rush Limbaugh's radio response<< Happily, I avoid him whenever possible. But that's pretty much the response I would have expected from a lying, racist addict.
Originally Posted By CuriousConstance I find it so strange that people could be so "addicted" and have such a "love" for their guns. I realize I don't have much room to talk when it comes to weird addictions, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around needing something so badly that can only be used to kill another living thing. And given the fact that statistically speaking, a verrrrrry small amount of people would ever have an actual, legitimate need for a gun, but feel so strongly about have it taken away.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I thought of something today: the NRA likes to say that the assault weapons ban we had from 1994 to 2004 "didn't do anything" or "wasn't effective." But consider this: Nancy Lanza bought that AR-15 that killed those 26 people after 2004. She apparently only became a gun enthusiast fairly recently. She bought it legally from a regular brick and mortar store, like her other guns. If the assault weapons ban had remained in place, she couldn't have done that. She could have bought her other guns, but not the assault rifle. Yes, she could have bought an existing assault rifle from before the '94 ban privately, but I think it much more likely she'd just have bought what was available in her local store, and been done with it. In other words, if the assault weapons ban had remained in force, Adam Lanza could never have killed as many people as he did as quickly as he did. Undoubtedly he'd have killed some. But a good number of CT families would not have been burying their 6 year olds last month.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I find it so strange that people could be so "addicted" and have such a "love" for their guns." I think that's part to the problem - addition. Having an intellectual interest in collecting, hunting, or protecting your property from harmful intruders is one thing, but arming your home with an assortment of military style assault rifles because you're obsessed and fearful of the government, a zombie apocalypse, or the boogeyman is another. Well, it's lunacy is what it is.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>What's the general perception of the US gun debate from your friends and associates down there?<< I can only say for a few people - I haven't gotten into it with a lot of people. The few I've talked to think we're nuts. And those few think it's a deadly combination with Right to Bare Arms .. and Right To Free Speech - So ... you can go up to a black person .. call them the "N" word, and quite a bit more. Next .. they can pull out a gun, and blow your brains out. Hello! Does the word DUH mean anything?! The right to hate speech .. the right to have guns ..... Some Australians think that's the deadliest mix ... for catastrophe!
Originally Posted By oc_dean Oh .. and I agree with them! You don't have the right to Hate Speech here in Australia .. and you don't have the right to Bare Arms ... and guess what? Day to day life is no less democratic than America. In fact I find it better.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "So ... you can go up to a black person .. call them the "N" word, and quite a bit more. Next .. they can pull out a gun, and blow your brains out." As nutty as it sounds there are states like Florida, for instance, where it wouldn't be shocking if something like this happened and the laws allowed the shooter to not be convicted. Actually, come to think of it, the black person would go to jail regardless, this being America and all.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "and you don't have the right to Bare Arms " So is Larry the Cable Guy banned , then?
Originally Posted By Tikiduck Part of the problem is that guns are marketed like sports cars. They get full color layouts in the gun magazines, on backdrops of black velvet, with a Rolex watch and a stylish folding knife. They are made out to be sexy, and a lot of people buy into it. There is a gun culture that is imbedded into this country's psyche deeper than an Alabama Tick. People literally love their guns. And most of them are hard assed, stubborn fools who are not willing to give any ground in the debate.
Originally Posted By dshyates And most of them are really scared of the negro in the while house, of the illegal immigrants, of the gangs, of the homosexual agenda, of the liberal media, of women taking their jobs, of the apocalypse, of.... They honestly believe the world is going to hell in a hand basket.
Originally Posted By CuriousConstance A lot of times stereotypes match statistical data. Might not be popular or politically correct to say it, but statistically correct.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "And most of them are really scared of the negro in the while house, of the illegal immigrants, of the gangs, of the homosexual agenda, of the liberal media, of women taking their jobs, of the apocalypse, of...." Actually, the 2nd Amendment was ratified as part of the US Constitution out of this fear. At least one state (Virginia) was fearful that without the provision for its citizen to bear arms black slaves, who made up a large percentage of the South’s population at the time, could rise up and revolt against their white masters. Same script, different cast.
