Originally Posted By jonvn The lobby, when crammed full, holds one theater full of people. Back during the original lincoln show, this area used to be a film pre-show. This room was filled with lean rails, and you watched a film about Lincoln's life, which moved to the theater when it became the Walt Disney Story. The film was shown on the wall where they still show a film today about Walt Disney, which is an edited down version of the film you saw in the main theater when it was the Walt Disney Story. Following this? Facing the film, you would walk in and stand in a row by a lean rail. There was a row for each door, iirc. When the film was over, the hostess would say to go into the theater, you'd turn to the left, and walk into the doors, where the show would consist strictly of Lincoln getting up to give his speech. "The world has never had a good definition of the word libery...." Then you'd exit to the right, and the next group would come in. So the lobby would be cleared, the show started, and the next group would come in to see the pre-show. That's how the thing was designed, and why the lobby, as I said, holds just enough for one theater full.
Originally Posted By jonvn "From what I've gathered, this one would open after the MGM one" I believe it was going into DL first.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros What about the other part of the lobby? I know that the area right next to the theater would only hold one show's worth of people, but that's really only about half of the lobby. There's also the little front room where there are small exhibits on the walls and one of Walt's offices. When you take out all the artifacts, that area is easily just as large as the other part, where the model of the park is now. This would allow them to fit more people inside. Plus, if they really wanted to, they could send a row of switchbacks into the exit, which at the time was way bigger than it needed to be, since it just recently got smaller with the Mad Hatter expansion. Adding in the other half of the lobby that's there now, the little foyer and a time or two through the exit, there would probably be enough room there for 3 shows worth of people inside.
Originally Posted By jonvn The area where the offices are were not there originally. This area was all lean rails. The film was larger originally than what you see today, too. There was an entrance area into this first preshow section, as the doors had to be closed prior to the film starting. That would be a lobby area. So, perhaps that is right. The grouping was one set seeing the figure, one set seeing the film, and a waiting set coming in waiting for the film. In fact, now that I recall, I think there was a model of the white house made out of lincoln pennies in that area. You've jogged my memory a bit. Going back over 40 years. But I believe that first waiting area may not have had the same capacity as the lean rail section as there were displays.
Originally Posted By jonvn "The area where the offices are were not there originally. This area was all lean rails. " Thinking about where the office ends, that's not Exactly right. The east most office wall was probably the back wall to the original theater, and the offices, as you say, would have been in the old waiting area.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Yes, I think with the front lobby (in front of the lean rails - which, you're right, held one theatre's worth of people, but there was more to the lobby than that) and what is now the offices (which could have been turned into switchback areas), there's room for way more than one theatre's worth of people in the lobby. <<"Did you not notice that I said Lincoln rarely overflowed the building even IN THE 60's">> <Yes, that's why it was replaced so early. Mr. Lincoln ran out of steam within a year or two, actually.> He wasn't replaced until 1973, so he ran for 8 years in the original version. And in the first couple of years he was the only human AA figure in the whole park. My whole point is that in '65-'66 he was MORE popular than Muppets would have been or even realistically anticipated to have been in 1991. And he handled the crowds in that theatre/lobby complex very well. In other words if the world-class marvel Mr. Lincoln could handle the crowds in 1965, the less-than-world-class marvel Muppets could reasonably have been anticipated to handle the crowds in 1991. <<Yet the Main-street ruining crowds never happened. >> <A lot of that was because of ticket books, which rationed rides you could go on. That being said, I recall waiting in very crowded lobbies for this thing.> Me too. He was VERY popular in the mid-60s. It was a highlight of the day. But remember that everyone under 18 got a free ticket good for Lincoln and ONLY Lincoln. So the rationing of ticket book thing wasn't really true for him. In fact, it practically mandated that you go see him in the early years (until he became less than a "gotta see" around 1970), which wouldn't have been the case for the muppets either.
Originally Posted By jonvn "And he handled the crowds in that theatre/lobby complex very well." Did he? I mean, between shows, did Abe go out and glad hand the folks in line? What a trooper. "Mr. Lincoln could handle the crowds in 1965, the less-than-world-class marvel Muppets could reasonably have been anticipated to handle the crowds in 1991." You have to be able to manage expectations. If they expected the thing to be very popular, then they would need to be able to accomidate the expected crowds that would show up. This was shown to be impracticle. "But remember that everyone under 18 got a free ticket" Remember the "Junior" ticket books? Back then, children were up to about 12, and then you had 13-18 as Juniors. These tickets were in the children and junior ticket books.
Originally Posted By monorailblue The funniest part of all this is the idea that, by some miracle, the Muppets would EVER have drawn a crowd of 2 or 3 theatres at once. That bit of humor will keep me going all weekend. I thank you all! I am sad about "it's a small world". The HKDL press release is sad. Clearly, the new thrust is the universality of childhood fun, not the universal brotherhood of mankind, represented by the innocense of children. Sad. Sad. <sniff> <loud laughter. just thought of muppets and 3 full theaters of waiting guests again. too funny> <juice coming out of nose>
Originally Posted By jonvn That's what they thought. And when it was added to DCA, it was still thought that, as provisions are there for how many theaters full of people in that line?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <<And he handled the crowds in that theatre/lobby complex very well.>> <Did he? I mean, between shows, did Abe go out and glad hand the folks in line? What a trooper.> He's not called America's greatest president for nothing. <<Mr. Lincoln could handle the crowds in 1965, the less-than-world-class marvel Muppets could reasonably have been anticipated to handle the crowds in 1991.>> <You have to be able to manage expectations. If they expected the thing to be very popular, then they would need to be able to accomidate the expected crowds that would show up. This was shown to be impracticle.> But that's what I'm saying. A reasonable assumption would be that the muppets in 1991 would not be any more popular (probably less) than Lincoln was in 1965. <<But remember that everyone under 18 got a free ticket>> <Remember the "Junior" ticket books? Back then, children were up to about 12, and then you had 13-18 as Juniors. These tickets were in the children and junior ticket books.> Right, so everyone under 18 got a ticket good for Lincoln only. And yes I remember that junior books. The A-D tickets were the same color in all three types (child, junior, adult); only the E tickets were different. Child E ticket was brown, Junior E was magenta, adult E was green. The general admission ticket on the front was the same color as the E tickets in each case. If you bought ticket books inside the park, however, they were the same price for all three groups, and the E tickets were white.
Originally Posted By jonvn "A reasonable assumption would be that the muppets in 1991 would not be any more popular (probably less) than Lincoln was in 1965. " I don't know how reasonable that is. I mean, I agree with your idea, but I don't know how much the people at the time thought how great it would be. Then, muppets were very popular. Jim Henson was still alive, and they were on top of the world. I can see them thinking they'd need a lot of line space. And when you look at how much line space they used in other locales, they built for a very very popular show.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Actually, Jim Henson died in 1990. Also, there had been a ton of disputes between Disney and the Henson family around that time, becaue he had only sort of given his approval for the attraction, and the family didn't like how it was turning out. Around this time was also when they were starting to drastically cut back production across the board. I would hardly call that at the top of their game.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 Wait! If The Walt Disney Story is moving to DCA during the revamp and Lincoln left to make way for the 50th. exhibit...what is going into the Lincoln building at Disneyland?
Originally Posted By FerretAfros That will be the new facility for testing things. Ever since they opened Monsters Inc in the SSL building and started doing construction for the subs, they've been looking for a place. They are currently using the PeopleMover tracks, but if bean's hints are right, then those will soon be out of comission for testing too.
Originally Posted By jonvn "what is going into the Lincoln building at Disneyland? " Probably a candy shop. Or another lincoln show. Either way, nothing that's going to be a real big crowd generator.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <<A reasonable assumption would be that the muppets in 1991 would not be any more popular (probably less) than Lincoln was in 1965. >> <I don't know how reasonable that is. I mean, I agree with your idea, but I don't know how much the people at the time thought how great it would be. Then, muppets were very popular. Jim Henson was still alive, and they were on top of the world. I can see them thinking they'd need a lot of line space.> They really weren't on top in 1991 any more. Still popular, but not super-popular. <And when you look at how much line space they used in other locales, they built for a very very popular show.> But in both cases, those were new parks without a whole lot of other attractions, and only a few real "headliners" to soak up the crowds. That was not the case in a mature DL in 1991.
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> what is going into the Lincoln building at Disneyland? << How about a lincoln showroom - sponsored by your orange county ford/lincoln/mercury dealers.
Originally Posted By jonvn "But in both cases, those were new parks without a whole lot of other attractions" Perhaps, but the idea is still that those areas point to how popular they thought this show would be. There is simply no room for the lines for those rides, even if you cut them in half.
Originally Posted By jonvn What it comes down to is you can't shut down main street for a constant crowd equivalent to a parade all day long. that is the scenario that was faced, and it was simply not acceptable.
