Originally Posted By melekalikimaka I don't think any of us said that the guy was broken up about it. How are we supposed to know how he feels? I'm sure it's nothing he hasn't heard before. You're missing the point completely. So, the question remains...do you make fun of people who look funny, DAR? Are you going to teach your children one day that it's okay to make fun of someone? Just tell them "sticks and stones" and let them make fun of deformities and oddities? Would you want them to join in with a crowd of people who were making fun of a strange child? I am 99% sure that you are NOT that sort of person...so why defend that type of behavior? Am I wrong to think that you wouldn't behave that way?
Originally Posted By DlandJB They talked about this same issue. A LOT of people are upset about this this time around. Simon may have gone too far this time.> I don't blame Simon as much as the editors and producers who decided to let it go through. These segments are all pre-taped and they can easily edit out the rought stuff. They only put some of these people through just to make fun of them. It is very mean spirited.
Originally Posted By DlandJB Whatever happened to saying sticks and stones? >>>>>>> "Sticks and stones" is a lie. Words hurt and often those hurts are seared into people's psyches. I don't remember a single time I was smacked or hit with a rock, but I sure as heck remember every time as a kid or young adult I was called a name because of my physical appearance.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka True, they definitely share some of the blame. I'm sure the show will be fine. 30+ million people watched the show on Tuesday. Plus, they don't care about my opinion about the show since I don't watch it regularly and have never/would never vote.
Originally Posted By DAR <<So, the question remains...do you make fun of people who look funny, DAR?Are you going to teach your children one day that it's okay to make fun of someone? Just tell them "sticks and stones" and let them make fun of deformities and oddities? Would you want them to join in with a crowd of people who were making fun of a strange child>> I do not engage in such behavoir nor would I encourage my children to. However sometimes being politically incorrect can be funny as I thought it was in this case. And let's just say that I have a child that has some type of deformity. I would let him or her know that people may make fun of his or her appearance. So I would then tell them to beat those who want to make fun of you at their own game. Have a sense of humor about yourself. <<"Sticks and stones" is a lie. Words hurt and often those hurts are seared into people's psyches. I don't remember a single time I was smacked or hit with a rock, but I sure as heck remember every time as a kid or young adult I was called a name because of my physical appearance.>> If it was someone close that called you names, then I can see that being hurtful. But if it was some random stranger or someone from your past that you don't see anymore, then who cares. It shouldn't matters what others think of you, it should matter what you think of yourself. Here's a little a story. When I was in sixth grade I played basketball. When it came time for the team to scrimmage we had to go to shirts and skins. Well I was one of the skins. At the time I was a little chubby. A few guys on the time made fun of me because of this. Yes I got mad at first, but then my coach told me to just ignore it and you know what I did.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka Yeah, you've told that story before. Is that the only time someone ever made fun of you? What if many people made fun of you every single day? It's great that your self-esteem is so strong but not everybody is lucky enough to be the same. Telling someone to just get over it can make them feel even worse. Someone has been made to feel ugly/freakish and now you've made them feel stupid and weak for not being able to just laugh it off. It's far easier for someone to keep their nasty observations to themselves than it is for someone to just ignore them. That guy on AI did laugh it off and seemed like a really nice guy. I doubt Simon could say something "witty" that he hasn't heard before. I bet he's a pretty strong individual to grow up looking different. He had enough guts to audition. I'm sure he'll be fine by this. I haven't heard him complaining about it. I hope he doesn't play the victim card just to show up the people who seem to think it's okay to laugh at his features.
Originally Posted By DAR <<That guy on AI did laugh it off and seemed like a really nice guy. I doubt Simon could say something "witty" that he hasn't heard before. I bet he's a pretty strong individual to grow up looking different. He had enough guts to audition. I'm sure he'll be fine by this. I haven't heard him complaining about it. I hope he doesn't play the victim card just to show up the people who seem to think it's okay to laugh at his features.>> And good for him, he's definitely got more guts than me. I wouldn't even think of going anywhere near there.
Originally Posted By DAR And to answer your question I still get made fun of a little bit. But I can dish it out as easily as I can take it.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka <<And good for him, he's definitely got more guts than me. I wouldn't even think of going anywhere near there>> You and me both!
Originally Posted By DlandJB If it was someone close that called you names, then I can see that being hurtful. But if it was some random stranger or someone from your past that you don't see anymore, then who cares. It shouldn't matters what others think of you, it should matter what you think of yourself. >>>> I've never been made fun of in front of a record television audience, so I can't imagine what that must be like. I will say that a few years back I went to a high school reunion. There was a guy there that I went all the way back to grade school with. He had been absolutely horrible to me when I started at the school in 5th grade. He called me names, took and broke things of mine, laughed at me and got others to laugh at me. He pretty much ignored me in high school. So here we are now in our 30s and he comes up and says how great it is to see me and how glad he is that I am there. All I can think about is how rough he made it for me when I was the new kid. Does he even remember? Well, I was very pleasant to him, but found the whole exchange very surreal. I did have one small victory -- he was losing his hair.
Originally Posted By wonderingalice On the lousy singing from people who think they've 'got it'... Didn't they ever tape record themselves singing? I've always 'thought' I sound pretty good when I'm just singing along (though I KNOW I can't hold notes). I can carry a tune well enough for someone to know what I'm singing if I'm trying to 'describe' a song to them. HOWEVER, when I tape recorded myself some years ago to see how I REALLY sounded... Flat as a board, yep. My voice is as flat as a board. There's no way on Earth I'd ever think for one minute that I had singing talent.
Originally Posted By DAR <<I've never been made fun of in front of a record television audience, so I can't imagine what that must be like.>> And in two years no scratch that by December are people even going to remember who this guy was. Remember we're and ADD nation, we tend to forget about things very quickly.
Originally Posted By DAR <<So here we are now in our 30s and he comes up and says how great it is to see me and how glad he is that I am there. All I can think about is how rough he made it for me when I was the new kid. Does he even remember? Well, I was very pleasant to him, but found the whole exchange very surreal.>> Most people are different at that age then they are in their 30's
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan DAR, the question is, is this 'okay' because we won't remember it? It's an ethical queation I'm asking -- is this the kind of stuff we should condone and support and just take in, no questions asked? This was hardly the worst example I've seen of someone being humilated on TV. After all, I saw the Chevy Chase talk show several times. But seriously, this was no accident. It was set up this way, that this guy is pulled in before the cameras and gets knocked not just for bad singing (which the screeners knew full well when they sent him through) but for his physical appearance. By a guy who is now a wealthy celebrity, mocking some random person with no power of any kind. It's completely a mismatch. It was set up to happen this way, more or less. If there's no outcry, next season we'll see people with perhaps birth defects getting the Simon treatment, because maybe that's what people are really tuning in for. Simon, being who he is, is unlikely to get it, or to see where exactly he crossed the line. But that doesn't mean the rest of us can't see it and call it what it is.
Originally Posted By ecdc I'm still with DAR. I think this has been over-thought and over-outraged to death in the media. Did Simon go too far? Sure. He shouldn't have said it and I suspect in retrospect even he might agree. Does it mean I'm not going to watch the show? No way. We're not flies on a wall watching a private audition. These people sign release statements, they see the production crew all over the place, and they willingly allow themselves to be interviewed after they are criticized by the judges. Reality TV is anything but reality. DAR's earlier statement about families being there when these people come out is right, too. These people are not supportive; they're enablers. You don't have to say "You're fat, ugly, stupid, and can't sing." But you could certainly say, "Son, you're a great kid with a lot of excellent talents, but singing isn't one of them." I'd add, it's easy to get outraged at comments about people's appearances on American Idol, but we're all contributors to this mindset in our culture. Critiquing the way people look is part of Simon's job of finding a "star" - like it or not. We're a celebrity obsessed culture; we don't watch TV shows or movies with the kids like we saw on Idol. It doesn't happen. Somebody, somewhere is going to have to tell them they aren't pretty enough, skinny enough, etc. And speaking of enabling, we all do it by what we buy, what we listen to, and what we watch. I can't sing worth crap, but even if I could and I auditioned for Idol, I would fully expect Simon to criticize my weight and appearance. Right or wrong, it's how it goes. All that said, I will back up 2oony that if they're willingly exploiting those whose mental capacity is questionable, I have a problem with it. But I remain unconvinced by what I saw that that's what happened. Finally, I really am not someone who takes some kind of sick pleasure in other people's suffering. There's plenty of reality TV or other media programming I avoid like the plague because I find it disturbing. But with Idol, I suppose I just cannot fathom how such talentless people could be so shocked to learn the truth; I just can't sympathize. They bear the burden of responsibility on this one, and I don't see it as the judges job (especially on a TV show that's meant to entertain) to sugarcoat it for them.
Originally Posted By SFH "My mom thinks I'm good." It's the Gong Show all over again. Nothing is new under the sun. And remember - we're seeing a heavily edited account. Just consider when it looks like they stopped the contestant in the middle of their first song and quickly dismissed them, but at the end of the show you see that contestant in the room singing part of the song that they have everyone sing so they can splice it all together at the end of the episode. Part of the problem with the people who are no good but try anyway could be the unrealistic self-esteem someone has drilled into them that has told them they can do ANYTHING if they just try. It's not true. We all have talents and skills and shortcomings, and with some of our shortcomings, especially in things like singing, no amount of practice or "self-esteem" is going to help us. As for the "Lemur" and his friend, I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the season finale, and wouldn't be surprised if they got a recurring segment on Kimmel on some silly "reality" show. I remember when Jay Leno thought this young woman's "innocence" (ignorance?) and thought processes about current events was so interesting that he regularly had her on Tonight Show bits, even introducing her to Al Gore. SFH
Originally Posted By DlandJB Most people are different at that age then they are in their 30's>>> Yeah. The point is that "sticks and stones" do leave scars. My nausea on AI had to do with some of the folks that were clearly challenged, not the simply strange. So it seems, were most people who watched it. But hey, if it made you laugh, DAR, so be it.
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy <It shouldn't matters what others think of you, it should matter what you think of yourself.> True, but unfortunately easier said than done for a lot of people.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka Just read in the Seattle P-I that Jonathan Jayne (the friend of the guy with the large eyes) is mildly autistic. It turns out that he also plays the drums and piano.
Originally Posted By chickendumpling Those two guys seemed like nice guys and I thought Simon et al seem to forget that talent or not, they're still people. Sheesh. I wish they wouldn't do that.
