Originally Posted By Capstan Certainly globalization affects everyone. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about cooperating with our next-door-neighbor. Europe went to great lengths to establish the EU, and has benefitted by it. While it's true, Mexico may be "poorer" than we, she has tremendous potential. We'd be foolish not to work with her, every way we can. Why alienate what may turn out to be the best trading partner we could possibly have?
Originally Posted By jonvn If you guys had any idea what sort of junk that truck drivers had to go through in order to make sure what they are doing is safe, then you'd be terrified about this. This is basically just not good. We have all these strict standards and tests you have to pass in order to just get a license. Then you really can't get a job until you train for months on end at places willing to take on newcomers. Then once you've driven about a million miles or so in a big rig, you can get yourself that fabulous 50 to 75k a year job. And you think that these guys coming up from Mexico are going to have the same standards? Do you realize how dangerous most of these truck drivers are already? It's the last refuge for some of them. If they don't even have this, watch the crime rate go up.
Originally Posted By Capstan "Last refuge for some of them?" So, truck drivers are the scum of the earth? Thanks a lot, jonvn.
Originally Posted By YourPalEd I remember the idea of raising the mexican standards to ours, was also behind reagans reason, to naturalize the 10 million illegal aliens at the time in 1980 something. Yet mexico, does not have american standards in their sewage, their electricty, their water treatment plants, the standards for their transportation system,and vehicles, etc. It's just a bunch of parasites who want inexpenxive delivery costs at americans expense. Same with oil, and combustion engines. Why switch to hydrogen if they are allowed to break the law, and polute your air, without having to pay for it. They do not care if you get lung cancer, because of their car engines. They care only about the net profits. Yet these very same people, are us, so i don't think they want to necessarily kill people with pollution, maybe, but i dont think so. I think they can only think so much as humans, so they concentrate on making a living. I think a lot of companies are reliefed to have secrets found out and cleaned up. Not all, hee hee, but as long as it's justified, i think most people do not want to hurt others. Of course this just happened today: <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/09/01/alaska.lawmakers.raid.ap/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITI CS/09/01/alaska.lawmakers.raid.ap/index.html</a> I don't know much about career criminals i guess. I found it interesting they didn't mention the main guy is a republican, til halfway through the article. I guess they figured the actual readers would find out eventually.
Originally Posted By jonvn "So, truck drivers are the scum of the earth? Thanks a lot, jonvn." A) I didnt' say that. B) What I did say was true. C) I have a truck driving license. Class A, doubles/triples, tankers, hazmat.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>And you think that these guys coming up from Mexico are going to have the same standards? << Hell no. I lived in Mexico 12 years. Nobody takes a test to get a license, you just pay a bribe.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Certainly globalization affects everyone. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about cooperating with our next-door-neighbor. << Do you really believe that? This is about saving money by lowering wages, nothing more. If there wasn't money to be made, it wouldn't be happening.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Europe went to great lengths to establish the EU, and has benefitted by it.<< True, but that was a marriage of equals. Mexico is a poor, corrupt and lawless country. Things are so dire that due to civil unrest the Mexican President (Vicente Fox) was considering giving his state of the union address tonight from his residence as opposed to the congress building (HE WAS AFRAID TO GO OUT!!!!). Mexico is what some political scientists call a "failed state": "A failed state is a controversial term intended to mean a weak state in which the central government has little practical control over much of its territory." Mexico is not a "poorer" version of the US or Canada. A political union with Mexico would be a catastrophe for the American people.
Originally Posted By fkurucz Here is a tidbit of what life is like in Mexico City these days. This is not an exageration, I have heard these stories from friends who still live in Mexico City. <a href="http://www.maconareaonline.com/news.asp?id=14997" target="_blank">http://www.maconareaonline.com /news.asp?id=14997</a>
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <My next door neighbor worked at IBM for over 20 years in middle management< really - imagine that IBM huh ? ;-)
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <My other neighbor also works at IBM. He has been luckier, but is constantly worried about the show dropping. They haven't bought a new car since forever. He would love a new car, but doesn't dare take on any debt.< depending on what division he is in -- he is doing the right thing....or so I hear
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Hell no. I lived in Mexico 12 years. Nobody takes a test to get a license, you just pay a bribe.< kinda like Illinois -- -- ask ex governor Ryan --LOL!
Originally Posted By YourPalEd It's been more dangerous around los angeles, too lately. A direct correlation to the ignorantly outrageous prices people are trying to charge for basics. They squeeze pennies out of the needy, so as to be able to maintain their salaries, so they can pay the mortgage on their third, and fourth homes, oh, and their 3rd summer house, and boat, and airplane. Our brains should be focused on getting peaches to cost 2 cents each, instead of $1 each. Hillary had it right with healthy care. Remember how the republican insurance industries spent 10 billion to fight hillary. So, instead of $120 a year per person, with masses of doctors employeed and hospitals open, instead, the hospitals are closed, the insurance industries do not pay, and the majority of people do not have health coverage at all. You are even safer not going to a hospital some people argue, when comparing the death rate of new borns in america, being higher than in third world countries, that do not have our high standards. It's republicans breaking the system, greediness is in their closets.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <So, instead of $120 a year per person, with masses of doctors employeed and hospitals open, instead, the hospitals are closed, the insurance industries do not pay, and the majority of people do not have health coverage at all. < Ed, talk to people who live in a country with socialized health care before you ask for it...many of my wifes relatives live in Ireland. Her cousin was diagnosed with cancer..( 26 years old) she had to wait 4 months to see someone and that someone was in England -- her dime to get there - so be careful what you wish for.... and $129 /month is a pipe dream....
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>fkurucz - what city are you in ?<< Loveland, Colorado, about 40 minutes north of Denver.
Originally Posted By fkurucz My neighbors work/worked at IBM Boulder plant. I also worked for IBM for 1 whole year (1998-99), also in Boulder in the Printer division. It was an awful job. I would have quit sooner, but then I would have had to return my signing bonus, which was long gone by the time I realized I had made a mistake.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo I too am a former truck driver—drove for McLane for two year until my knees went out (own by WalMart Corp. interestingly enough). I quit when my knees couldn’t take the strenuous work any longer. Anyhow, this is horrible for the transportation industry IMO, and will lead to...predicably…a devaluation of workers (drivers in this case) in America. What transportation company is going to be willing to pay an American driver $40 to $50 grand a year (what I got) when they can hire a Mexican national for peanuts on the dollar? If they want to remain competitive, you bet they will jump at the first chance to lower their bottom line. And like the produce industry, once the transportation industry acclimates itself to low labor costs, it will be like pulling teeth to bring that cost back up to American standards. This whole globalization dogma is getting way out of control.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <My neighbors work/worked at IBM Boulder plant. < that's what I was guessing...
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <This whole globalization dogma is getting way out of control. < also it's a mischaracterization of the world globalization -- it is for cost reasons pure and simple, the global marketplace has nothing to do with the decision. If the Mexican workers made the same money ( or those in India / Brazil / Thailand) not a single job would be moved...period
