Originally Posted By ChiMike ^ The difference being that change didn't occur just so people could stay employeed as "creatives". Change was well thought-out and when something was added or plussed it was often substantial and ground-breaking. Warts and wrinkles were certainly less prominent and, imo, were more tolerable considering they were occuring while Disney was building Space Mountains, EPCOT Centers and Grand Floridians. Now warts and wrinkles are rationalized, marketed, and sold in vacation packages. Lack of reinvestment and deferred maintenance is treated with pooh playgrounds, fart smells, dame judi dench and jib-jab cartoons.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Sport Goofy, you may be right with some. For me, davewasbaloo online and real life are the same guy WYSIWYG
Originally Posted By ChiMike >> I am willing to bet if we had the internet in the 60's and Walt Disney had announced plans for building POTC, people online would have blasted him saying "Who wants to sit in a boat for 15 minutes looking at robot pirates"<< While I agree with you regarding how the Internet has changed things. I disagree wholy with this idea. There was a level of trust for the Disney name during those times. Walt had earned folks' enthusiasm for what would be done next in the theme parks. There was plenty of message board chatter in the early and mid 90s. That chatter was often positive on projects such as Indy and ToT even while there were complaints with what was changing when it came to the operations of the parks. So sorry, I don't buy it.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >> do think that there are people prone to complain more loudly and obnoxiously than others. In social situations that aren't anonymouns, those folks are usually kept in check by the fact that this sort of behavior just isn't all that flattering. However, in the world of the anonymous internet, the social norms of the world fall apart and people who would otherwise be labeled obnoxious run amuck.<< And, again, this is a bad thing? To see unfiltered opinions that aren't shielded by social pressure or political correctness. What is better than allowing one to attempt to share their geniune opinion. It's not like all sorts of online communities don't self-regulate to keep the really crazy stuff from drowning out good conversation.
Originally Posted By jkayjs Welcome back Ann glad you had a good time. So I guess it's on now. BTW sorry you didn't get to see "the boys" this trip. Dan my daughter told me he friends softball game was canceled Fri due to threats of lightning. Hope the weather doesn't have too much of an effect on your trip. Just one question for you, did you have a martini @ R&C this trip?
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: So nice to see you around again, ChiMike, duckling! My sisters and I have long admired you and your comments within the Lauhing Place Pond. Keep up the good fight. You have much support in Morva--as do so many others around here who know how to stand up for a higher quality product.
Originally Posted By pixiedust1 (NEW! Labuda Sun 4/6/2008 8:18a jk - I'm here! Back from WDW, wheeeeeeeeee! Anyhow, certain pixies are just continuing to show their ignorance and complete lack of ability to comprehend what they read) I knew you would show up eventually, TDLFANS close buddy and defender.. Now your calling me names.. why don't YOU go where TDLFAN has gone.. go pick up some garbage.. you should feel right at home I'm sure... last comment for you... also...
Originally Posted By BeautysBeast What Tdlfan and spirit do in the privacy of their bedroom is no ones business..I personally hope spirit doesnt share any of the gory details...BB out
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<jk - I'm here! Back from WDW, wheeeeeeeeee! Anyhow, certain pixies are just continuing to show their ignorance and complete lack of ability to comprehend what they read, I believe. Anyhow, I had a blast at WDW, but did discover that I basically had done all of my "must-dos" in the first 48 hours. After that, I acted like I was on vacation - weird! lol Anyhow, bummed that I didn't get to see TDLFAN or Spirit on this trip, but I did get to hang out with -em and chrisrails, so that was cool. Anyhow, as if it needs to be said again - spirit and TDLFAN are both very big fans of Disney and only want the company to maintain the level of excellence they did in the past. For those ignorant folks who don't know or remember the way things were 20 years ago... congrats! You're part of the dumbing down of Disney, and those of us who DO remember the old days just adore when you trash us for expecting more and not taking part in the Walmarting of Disney.>> An intelligent (non-W-loving), good-looking Texan with great personality too! Anything's possible Glad you had a great time, Ann ... and very sorry I couldn't make it up there. I'm saving my pennies (almost literally) so I can see HKDL, TDL and TDS because of my deep hatred of Disney right now! Let's talk soon!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<This is so funny...Spirit and Tdl are posting elsewhere like crazy....For all of you that want them back go find them at Miceage.....Go read up on them there...>> Ken ... while it's nice to have online 'followers' (I won't label you a stalker as someone here did to me!) I need to set the record straight. Neither I nor TDLFAN are 'posting like crazy' anywhere. I barely post on Micechat. It's very dead (except for the DL forum) and has too many 24-year-olds who believe WDW has never been better. I did start posting on another site this week, but I doubt it will be a regular part of my diet. <<I read some stuff from Tdl there the other day and he is having the same affect he had here...His attitude is amazing!>> Strong, confident, polarizing voices are often intimidating for those who lack the intellectual capacity to engage in deep, adult and, sometimes, philosophical debate. But, yeah, I've always thought TDLFAN had an amazing 'tude considering he'd forgetten more about Disney parks worldwide than most here will ever know, and got abused because of it.
Originally Posted By danyoung >Just one question for you, did you have a martini @ R&C this trip?< I had my first martini drinking night Friday night, my first night in town. Lynda, my favorite bartender at the Rose & Crown, remembered me and my drink. Love having my own corner bar here in the World! >An intelligent (non-W-loving), good-looking Texan with great personality too! Anything's possible < Geez, if I hadn't looked at the context of the message, I'd have thought you were talking about ME there!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<^ The difference being that change didn't occur just so people could stay employeed as "creatives". Change was well thought-out and when something was added or plussed it was often substantial and ground-breaking. Warts and wrinkles were certainly less prominent and, imo, were more tolerable considering they were occuring while Disney was building Space Mountains, EPCOT Centers and Grand Floridians. Now warts and wrinkles are rationalized, marketed, and sold in vacation packages. Lack of reinvestment and deferred maintenance is treated with pooh playgrounds, fart smells, dame judi dench and jib-jab cartoons.>> Bingo. Most people, even here, seem to fundamentally not understand how and why decisions are made in the company. Take away the 'boys club' politics in Glendale and the power of the Orlando marketeers and you might start getting more Everests and less Stitch's Great Escape. As to warts, sure they existed, even in Walt's era. heck, I've got Carlene Thie's Homecoming: Destination Disneyland book on my coffeetable and was flipping thru it last night and right there in 1956 pictures you can spot a few pieces of trash on the ground. Not a dump like Main Street at MK looks like after a parade, but still ... so, no, nothing was perfect. But fundamentally how the parks were run, why things were added or taken away and what stories they were trying to tell has changed and got muddled. As a simple statement when people ask what my biggest 'problem' with WDW is, I simply answer its inconsistency. It can deliver a world-class experience and an outlet mall one all in the same day. That's what happens when you toss the basics out the window.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: We just knew you wouldn't totally abandon us, Spirit of 74, duckling! Every time my sisters and I see another post of yours pop up, it starts our cauldron to bubbling and boiling like you wouldn't believe!!! We really believe it's the fans--like yourself--who help to keep current Disney Management on their toes. They don't deserve to rest on their 'fat cat' laurels what-so-ever. It seems like they're finally being forced to take notice of their bad decisions. Now some of them are even making public responses to the fans out there. ORGOCH: Yeah, way ta go! Keep them goomers on the run!!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Sport Goofy, you may be right with some. For me, davewasbaloo online and real life are the same guy WYSIWYG Here Here DWB - some people find it hard to believe some of us are exactly the same person in real life. In fact I am likely more tolerant on line than in real life. Why is it anyone who says TDLFAN or Spirit are very knowledgeable and have every right to express their opinion become their 'defenders' ? I have never met either (I consider that my loss for the knowledge I could take in ) - yet I think they have every right to say what they feel here and I would expect them to be no different in person. I would likely be considered a Disney apologist by some, yet I can see some issues and I bring them up to. I love Disney - grew up with it - attended DL 2 months after it opened ( you're not the onlyoldster here SG ) - named after Davey Crockett, a long time stockholder - ( as are both my kids) -a DVC owner - anAP holder ( and I live in Chicago for cryin out loud) - andI criticize items I see also. I hate dumbing down of any product - especially those I care for. See I look at comments TDLFAN makes differently. Yes he can be maybe overly critical to some but I know one thing, when he tells you a show is spectacular - or a fireworks show is truly excellentetc , I know it's a must see for me the next time there. Same for Spirit - if he tells me not to miss a certain meal at a restaurant, or a show, I know that the place has done due diligence to the Disney heritage... You attend every other week, maybe it's become passe and you gloss over items...for my family it's a once a year ( twice in a good year ) visit and yes I expect things to be as close to perfect as possible - and am more than willing to pay for that experience. It's what I expect ! If I want an average experience there are plenty of other places I could go. And since I have been going for a long long time, yes I remember there were always some warts ....but there were plenty more hits....and I can tell you the GAP between WDW / DL and it's competitors was much larger then, than today. That is not a good thing. See, I'm old enough to remember a lot of companies I like that are no longer around today. I miss many of them. I wantmy grandchildren to know why I spent so much of my money on Disney 'stuff' ( I cleaned that up ) as my wife calls it, and why I viewed them as so special. If that's a crime,than lump me in with the others on this board that feel that way also....
Originally Posted By leobloom >>I have never met either (I consider that my loss for the knowledge I could take in)>> Brown-nose much?
Originally Posted By kennect Spirit, Just make me a little more ill than I already am reading this stuff....People begging you and TDL to come back...But please, and I am serious, can you explain that last part of the post above directed at me? The bit about TDL and something to do with his worldwide park experience...I really have to say I don't get what you said.... Don't get me wrong in all of this...I am just so tired of having to read how one person can simply say to others they shouldn't bother visiting Disney in Florida....The place is far from perfect but yet you have to admit there aren't many other places you could go to and get that kind of fun for a day...But these socalled online critiques makes it sound like the place is just pure trash and no one should waste their time visiting....I know this is simply a web forum that most people will never see but at the same time you guys have talked WDW down so much anybody that reads the posts here would never want to go...I don't know...I will though leave you this one great thing...Our new Walmart just opened last month and yes they still carry that one item I can't find anywhere else...I told you about that before but you won't remember...And guess what? This store actually looks very nice...It is still a Walmart but a definite step above the previous ones I have shopped in....But in visiting this new store I have thought about you and your reference to the Walmarting of Disney...I think you are very wrong...Disney, to me, truly has a way to go before they really get that cheap...They may be headed that way but they haven't hit that low in my book at this point...
Originally Posted By demderedoseguys >People begging you and TDL to come back< Nobody is begging anyone to come back. As the thread starter, I asked them to come back for the reasons I stated in the original post. I don't know either one personally and actually have had very little interaction with them on this site.For all I know,I could meet them someday and dislike them. That being said, I do like to read their points of view and while I don't always agree with everything they say, their comments do cause one to stop and think.
Originally Posted By barboy "I am just so tired of having to read how one person can simply say to others they shouldn't bother visiting Disney in Florida." The thing is kennect if one lives in Tenn, Georgia, Alabama or Fl. and doesn't have a lot of cash or time then by all means jump in the car and go. Enjoy WDW. Heck, if I lived in that region I would tap WDW far more often solely because of the sheer proximity and WDW has **some** outstanding qualities not found anywhere else. But for those who have the time and money... get on a plane and see Disney at its finest in Anaheim, Paris and especially in Tokyo. I'm not saying this is you(since I don't know which Disney resorts you have seen or haven't seen) but, I do notice a correlation around here: the ones who defend WDW the most tend to be the least **Disney** traveled folk and the ones who offer up the most stern ctiticisms of WDW tend to be more cosmopolitan bunch
