Originally Posted By ChiMike >> It seemed to me to be a Mad Mouse in the dark. Perhaps a very well designed and long-tracked Mad Mouse, but a Mad Mouse just the same.<< I respect your personal opinions on this ride but must stress again that Space Mountain is not a mouse coaster. It's akin to saying that BTMR is an inverted coaster. Space Mountain is a full scale rollercoaster from 30 years ago. Considering the advancements since then it now looks meager in comparison to the top coasters of today. Yet, many enthusiasts still consider the WDW version to be a top coaster because of it's unique ride system and out-of-control, rough nature. Newer (non-mouse-size) coasters tend to be too much alike. >>Somehow I thought "Space Mountain" might actually convey an impression of being in space, as crazy as that may seem.<< Well, from the get-go no one really approached it as a space simulation. It was always meant to be a fun, space-themed indoor coaster. Anyone going in with simulation expectations were going to be let-down. Originally, I think it did what it intended to do - - brilliantly. Currently, I think it still offers a one-of-a-kind experience and is one of only a handful of offerings in the U.S. that parents can take young kids on. I am personally torn on what I would like to see it as in the next two decades.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>It's amazing how for many people a vacation is 10 days every July at Disney's Boardwalk ... and nothing else.<< For some, they won't even leave property to check out Universal or Sea World. I can understand multiple trips to WDW, I think we all can. I do agree that doing just that and nothing else seems to be a missed opportunity. Well, when you have maintenance fees increasing almost every year and you just overpaid for Saratoga Springs, I'm sure you feel the need to maximize any savings.
Originally Posted By danyoung >No one especially not TDLFAN or myself EVER said WDW was trash or that people shouldn't visit.< Sorry, but this just isn't true in TDLFAN's case. I'm sorry I can't point anyone to a specific thread, but I've seen him many times answering a question about WDW with "why would you even bother going there when TDL is so much better?", or words to that effect. He has also protested in the past that he's never said this. Trust me - he has.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>What often was stated was the way WDW had been dumbed down and allowed to get stale due to neglect and greedy management.<< Don't forget cheap wages, lower standards for employees, transitioning labor source to a rolling period of employment reflecting an extended spring break for untrained temporary college workers, outsourcing key support operations to vendors, misplaced prioritization on marketing & promotions over tangible product/service, over-reliance on sub-par entertainment, dependence on technological-driven ancillary products and service (PalMickey, FP, Light-up pins), cruise-line product schemes which result in bland products, a purging of experienced and quality employees, and most importantly the lack of understanding (or experience) on why people visit WDW in the first place.
Originally Posted By leobloom I think vbdad55 has a man-crush on Spirit and TDLFAN. Awww. When you wish upon a staaaaaar...
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: And just what's so wrong with having a 'mad crush' on some gorgeous hunk who knows how to tilt your kilt the way the Spirit does? Or what's wrong with having a mad crush on another Disney fan who has already proven he can add zoom to your broom? If some of you seemingly jealous types would just find your OWN personal favorites around here instead of trying to rain on the--otherwise--fabulous parade of friendships already established, you'd be much happier and ready to enjoy a much more pleasant visit to the Laughing Place Pond than you currently seem to be having. If there are certain personalities that rub you the wrong way, you've already made your points but to continually try and make these points any further is to come across like someone who's obsessed with anialation of any whom you can't relate to. ORWEN: Yeah, so what's the point of trying to ruin the original 'spirit' of this topic thread?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I liked TDLFAN. TDLFAN was a friend of mine (kind of). But TDLFAN was a bitch. I respected him enormously for both his insightful reviews of the parks and his terrific photography. But there were MANY times when he was needlessly hostile to another poster, and to close you eyes to that makes absolutely no sense. I liked TDLFAN. But TDLFAN was a jerk. I see no contradiction in those statements.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >No one especially not TDLFAN or myself EVER said WDW was trash or that people shouldn't visit.< <<Sorry, but this just isn't true in TDLFAN's case. I'm sorry I can't point anyone to a specific thread, but I've seen him many times answering a question about WDW with "why would you even bother going there when TDL is so much better?", or words to that effect. He has also protested in the past that he's never said this. Trust me - he has.>> Oh, I recall similar statements, Danny. But they weren't serious, and he said as much when called on it. He may have enjoyed the higher quality and true Disney standards in the OLC parks, but if anyone ever asked him if they should visit WDW the answer would always be 'yes.' So to sit here and take a shot at him for having a flair for hyperbole would be about as fair as me making fun of you for wasting time at WDW by sitting in a hotel room posting on a Disney fan site. (so I won't!)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Don't forget cheap wages, lower standards for employees, transitioning labor source to a rolling period of employment reflecting an extended spring break for untrained temporary college workers, outsourcing key support operations to vendors, misplaced prioritization on marketing & promotions over tangible product/service, over-reliance on sub-par entertainment, dependence on technological-driven ancillary products and service (PalMickey, FP, Light-up pins), cruise-line product schemes which result in bland products, a purging of experienced and quality employees, and most importantly the lack of understanding (or experience) on why people visit WDW in the first place.>> How could I? They are part and parcel of WalMarting WDW ... and making a lot of consultants very, very wealthy.
Originally Posted By Bob Paris "by the way I thought you left the board... end of this conversation with you.. go look for garbage will you.. " You're doing a pretty good job of representing exactly that right here. You are misnamed. You should be called "Nasty Disney Poster 101".
Originally Posted By danyoung >Oh, I recall similar statements, Danny. But they weren't serious, and he said as much when called on it.< You're a jerk and a fathead and a complete moron who doesn't deserve to live. Oh, I didn't really mean that. When the disclaimer is separated by many posts and sometimes over days, it becomes meaningless. >So to sit here and take a shot at him for having a flair for hyperbole would be about as fair as me making fun of you for wasting time at WDW by sitting in a hotel room posting on a Disney fan site.< Parks ain't open yet, so here I am, keeping up with my friends. Pretty sad of me, no?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo A little maybe, but I think it's cool. I had a little sticker shock when I found out I ran up a $700 bill on my handheld trying to keep in touch with LP. That shows a problem. Hope you are having a great time Dan!
Originally Posted By danyoung Thanks, dave. And I was being sarcastic - I don't think there's anything sad about keeping in touch with others who wish they were here!
Originally Posted By ChiMike I think the elephant in the room is that I don't think there is anyone who thinks are peachy-keen down there right now. Especially heading into a tourisim recession. A lot of this back and forth is about delivery and manners which I think is probably given too much attention. There are parts of each of the four theme parks that I still am very happy to visit. I also think Typhoon Lagoon is sometimes overlooked as one of the true gems left at WDW. I will say that I think 90 percent of Disney's current decision making is cancerous. This is probably caused by the dominance of the entertainment, marketing, and technocrat factions within WDP&R. who are still control and who still have their ill-qualified minions inside and outside of the company.
Originally Posted By MPierce What a very interesting, and enlightening thread. Reading it has been a very pleasant way to spend a Tuesday afternoon. All of us can not be as fortunate as Dan to be in WDW right now. I know that doesn't sound very cosmopolitan does it.
Originally Posted By jkayjs Gee Dan they know your drink @ R&C. I wonder if my husband and kids went in if they would put 4 Stella's on the bar. They have certainly thrown back more than a few there. No matter what we do we always manage to end up @ the bar @ the R&C go figure. BTW I predicted this thread might reach 500 if anyone's counting it is almost 3/5th there.
Originally Posted By jkayjs Wow when did we get a preview button? If you say it's been there all along I may have to refill my memory pills.
Originally Posted By Members Only >How many times can you rip MK management for allowing the park to get stale and rot away? How many times can you rip TDO for the DDP, which is destroying resort dining? How many times can you say that despite the above that you still love visiting and eagerly await your next trip, so you can just get out and walk the lush pathways of DAK or go around the world in a day at Epcot?< This is also exactly how I feel. Currently I am debating weather to take up Disney’s offer of partaking in a 6 month graduate program, when I finish my last semester of college in June. Half of me thinks how hypocritical of me it would be; working for the very company I now believe has, maybe since the start of the millennium, become creatively bankrupt. Would I not just be part of the problem, indulging Disney’s desire for, what basically amounts to lowly paid slave labour, with increasingly poor standards and lax restrictions on the quality of the people they employee? On the other hand I did the international college program (Being from the UK) two years ago, and met many amazing people from all over the world, one of the plus points of the CP. Despite the current Disney corporate climate their still seems to be a few people, on the front line level at least, who still “get itâ€. Despite my thoughts on how the WDC is currently run, I can’t help but love the offerings, of often now past works of WDI. To stroll around World Showcase on a summers evening, to walk down a near empty Sunset Blvd just before park closing, to wander around Tom Sawyers Island, to relax on Main Street after the Wishes crowds have dispersed, and as you stated experiencing the lush paths of DAK. There are so many things still great about Disney, and this is why I feel the need to protect the parks, all most from Disney it’s self, or the current incarnation of it anyway. Hopefully one day in the future when I’ve become a successful film-maker, I can stride into the WDC and rescue Disney’s soul like a shining knight, clad in armour, on a white horse (I can dream, lol). I just fear the inner workings of the WDC are now so tangled, corrupt, and poisoned by modern corporate culture and the all mighty dollar that nothing short of a cultural revolution could bring about changes. Part of the blame is maybe due to modern cultural trends, but Disney has lost a lot of respect, from me anyway for becoming part of the problem. Disney was never a follower of trends, but a setter of trends, now it’s just another pig at the capitalist gang-bang filling its mouth with marketing schemes, graphs, and pie charts on “what people wantâ€. I’ve been a bit of a lurker here over the past few months. I’ve posted a bit on WDW Magic (Maybe the name says it all in the type of people you can expect to find there) over the past couple of years, but basically got roundly criticised by all and sundry for daring to say the SSE refurb was, on the whole a terrible mess, and that the upcoming IASW changes at Disneyland are endemic of the current poison flowing through the veins of Disney. It’s amazing how fast people tag you as somebody who “LOOKS FOR ALL THE NEGATIVES†and suggest “HERE’s AN IDEA, HOW ABOUT YOU JUST STOP GOINGâ€. I think I’ve gave up even trying to enlighten there opinions a tiny bit. I became quite exited when I found this forum; it seemed to have a good level of well balanced criticism and insider insights. It’s just a shame that two of the main proponents of this appear to be leaving, or well have left, lol. I’d ask you to stay but it’s up to you, obviously. I especially enjoyed Sprits insights into the current creative climate of WDI. A question I have constantly been asking my-self over the past year is where the problem is stemming from in relation to the parks, and new attractions specifically. Are WDI getting weak budgets, or are WDI doing poor work with large budgets, is it a combination of both? Spirit has provided a few insights into WDI that I have found most interesting. On other boards I find it often amounts to sacrilege to even hint at criticising WDI, and that any poor work is blamed solely on the budget. More than likely it is due in parts to both. I think more than anything the SSE refurb has confirmed my suspicions about WDI’s poor creative choices as of late. Even then there still appears to be some hold-outs within WDI, Joe Rhode seems to genuinely “get itâ€, I have to admit I’m a bit suspicious of Tony Baxter, but I don’t have enough information to go on, which is why I enjoyed Spirits insights. Oh well, like I said, I really enjoyed reading your posts and appreciated them, so I’d be happy in the least if you carried on contributing, as I’m sure many other like minded people would.
