Originally Posted By DAR While I thought both Spirit and TDLFan drifted a little too much into negative territory for my tastes, I do appreciate that they stayed true to who they are.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> MPierce, welcome back, I've missed your contributions to LP. << Thanks bobbelee9, it's been a very long, and miserable 2 months. Hopefully I will have more time to spend here at LP now.
Originally Posted By MPierce Welcome to LP, Members Only. Somehow I get the feeling you are in store for some very interesting discussions in the near future.
Originally Posted By MPierce I feel like a " lost minion "! Where is my fearless leader Spirit of 74? Where is that great World Traveler TDLFAN? How am I suppose to abandon my Redneck Right-wing lifestyle without your help, and guidance? Am I destined to live this Non- Cosmpolitan life in total ignorance, and a self indused bliss. ( As you can tell, I'm not above a little A** Kissing! )
Originally Posted By mousermerf Hmm.. Members Only needs to take that job so once he (or she) is powerful enough to make major decisions at Disney he (or she) can recall that merf (that'd be me) agreed and needs a job
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Despite my thoughts on how the WDC is currently run, I can’t help but love the offerings, of often now past works of WDI. To stroll around World Showcase on a summers evening, to walk down a near empty Sunset Blvd just before park closing, to wander around Tom Sawyers Island, to relax on Main Street after the Wishes crowds have dispersed, and as you stated experiencing the lush paths of DAK. There are so many things still great about Disney, and this is why I feel the need to protect the parks, all most from Disney it’s self, or the current incarnation of it anyway.<< Members only, A phenomenal post. Very well written. Knowing that your current position in life comes with many options available to you, and only going off of what you presented in your post, I would enthusiastically suggest that you take an offered position in Orlando if Disney offers. I don't think anyone would disagree with the logic that you should try to effect change from within. The worst that can happen is that you quit. You never want to regret passing up something that you are passionate about. Passion alone can really put you on your way to succeeding in life. I also agree with the notion that a large part of the remaining "positives" left at WDW are items that were designed a long, long time ago by leaders and creators who, in part, haven't worked for Disney in a long, long time. It is off those "positives" that the Orlando leadership pumps their current strategies, while at the same time having disdain for the policies and principles that led to the creation of these positives in the first place. >>but basically got roundly criticised by all and sundry for daring to say the SSE refurb was, on the whole a terrible mess,<< Not only is it a "terrible mess". It a CRYSTAL CLEAR example of how poorly WDI is run. How a few people, who think they are creative, are allowed to run around and systematically put into place long-term assets that will have 1/10th the shelf life their predecessors had. They are given the authority, to time and time again, be incorrect about what the guests want. And then at the same time reading about jockeying for political advantage and free dinners at Napa Rose. SSE is a CRYSTAL CLEAR example of how bad it is because it shows the regression in what BRAND NEW things WDI is capable of creating. =+-Anyone can clean up show scenes created 30 years ago.-+= When it comes to ADDING. CREATING. CREATING something new, WDI fails miserably. Not only that but they take what was an inspiring score & narration from the time it was installed in the 90s and make it sound like some Nickelodeon “Learn history in 10 minutes†short. The original script was written by some of the finest minds in our country, this current script displays almost the same amount of brain-power that was exhibited in the SGE show script. But, hey, it's a British accent, and, she's a woman to boot! How futuristic and cutting edge! I wonder if there was a lot of black-slapping going on once they had the final cut. I wonder how many jokes were made about the old silly, Nixonian soundtrack. Like I said, A CRYSTAL CLEAR example of how VERY sick WDI is. And how we keep trusting the SAME people, and the SAME consultants, to, maybe-just-maybe, deliver. Only to get the SAME sub-par results time and time again. It's too bad John L. didn't really have the house cleaning many originally hoped for. As has been for the last 15 years, folks can continue arguing about budgets, or today's guest, the Walmart effect, or even technology, but as I have since 1999, I will continue stressing how much of these problems lie within WDI. It doesn't matter how big the budget, WDI will find a way to be inefficient and ineffective.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>I wonder if there was a lot of black-slapping going on once they had the final cut.<< errr. That would be BACK-slapping for those of you keeping score at home. I apologize for the last few posts and their VERY poor grammer. I guess I am rusty.
Originally Posted By kennect Spirit, You know you can do most anything you want to here being it a public forum...But I am sorry, I still feel that you along with TDL have made a lot of people feel very insecure about visiting WDW...TDL can be just plain out nasty and I must admit that isn't how you post by any means...But the two of you guys really can put a damper on topics here that will effect many potential visitors...Maybe first timers or seasoned ones...Endless posts about problems or how cheap WDW is being at the moment do have an effect on how others feel about the place...Yes there is a time and place for such post but constant ones are doing no one any favors...We the public will never be able to change the inside politics of the WDW resort that you like to talk about endlessly...So you know some folks there...Big deal...And as far as TDL goes...Well there are only two things he approves of in the world, Donna Summer and TDL...So what, should I have to read here how nasty WDW is and let it ruin my family vacation? I don't think so...I don't care how many photo's he cares to post...There are literally dozens of folks that post the same stuff without having to add negative comments about such.... Spirit, I have to tell you this...I like you a lot better when you are just posting as a simple LP user, not when you are posting as a gossip...You really come across as a nice guy and I am sure you are...
Originally Posted By leobloom ^^"So what, should I have to read here how nasty WDW is and let it ruin my family vacation?" I don't understand how someone else's opinion can "ruin" your vacation. If you enjoy WDW, then why are you insecure about that enjoyment? Don't let TDL's or anyone else's opinion change your mind about that.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Well I am a staunch defender of Tdlfan and SPirit. It's not like they are always negative, the give credit where credit is due. Defenders of medocracy add to the problem, and there are loads of them. For me, although there is lots on offer at WDW, and aspects such as DAK and Epcot are awesome, it is frustrating how people go back time and time again ignoring the other resorts. I realy had more bad than good last trip and wondered about ignoring Disney as it wasn't worth the time and money. But a trip to DL and DLP demonstrated they still offer wonderful experiences. So from now on I will ignore Florida for a while, and I try to encourage others to do likewise. WDW has grown too big and has poor management compared to the other resorts.
Originally Posted By dshyates DWB, I completely understand your sentiments. I must have the worst timing when visiting Disney parks in the past decade. I grew up going the WDW, even worked on the backlot at MGM when they built ToT. But we didn't go for awhile because we moved to Denver. Being a huge Disney fan, and having never been to Disneyland, combined with the opening of the much heralded DCA. We wet right after DCa opened. Well we went I was stunned at how crappy DCA was but more shocking to my Disney faith, was the fact tht DL proper was in horrible shape. Holes in the thatched roofs, peeling paint and wood rot everywhere you looked. Between DCA and a delapidted DL. I was really disappointed. Especially since it was before they realized what a dud DCA was and started giving it away. We paid absolute top dollar. Within 2 month of our trip they drastically dropped the prices. What we paid $2000 for we could have gotten for $700 if we ad waited. But we'd already spent our yearly vacation budget. Now I hear they have actually cleaned up DL. But based on my experience I am reluctant to pony up the bucks after being burned so bad. So we decided to visit WDW to see the better mantained Disney parks. Boy was I shocked. The Poly was in awful shape and the amenities were Super 8 quality at above 4 seasons prices. At $350/night we got small towels so thin you could see thru them, wallpaper that was peeling, and the mattress was urine stained (5 years earlier when we visited DLR we stayed at te Grand Cai. And the amenities were fantastic so I know Disney knew better). The entertainment was beyond tired, CMs slovenly and disinterested, and places like DtD crowded beyond belief. So crowded that we left because we couldn't get through the place. Seriously, it was like rock concert crowded. Absolute pedestrian gridlock. I am really good at overlooking things when on vacation, but he last 2 Disney trips on both coasts have caused me to simply not be willing to bet on them again. By all accounts they have upgrade the Poly to Deluxe standards with high thread count sheets, nice towel, and non-urine stained mattresses. But that wasn't my top dollar experience. So for the last decade I have gone, been disappointed, and been told by fanboys that I just went at the wrong time. They have fixed all that stuff now. But my personal experiences far out weigh internet rumor when it comes to me spending $1000s. They start fixing things when they start losing customers. Unfortunately for me, I was one those they chose to lose to find out when they need to spiffy things up.
Originally Posted By danyoung >Defenders of medocracy add to the problem, and there are loads of them.< Sorry, dave, but I've never liked this term. And I've never liked how it seems to boil down to two classes of people - those who speak out sternly against WDW and Disney management, and DOM. It's just not that simple. I don't think anyone in their right mind would say "hey, I hope Disney opens up another mediocre attraction in Florida!" The term makes no sense. Many people, among them TDLFAN and the Spirit, are much more critical of Disney and the way they run their parks, as is their right. But many more people, myself among them, can acknowledge the problems but still visit and have a terrific time - yes, even in the MK! I'm fresh back from a week in WDW, and found it all to be well kept, mostly clean, filled with mostly friendly and competent CM's - in short, it was everything I wanted it to be for my vacation. Did I spend any time critically comparing what is there now to what was there in the past? Not a second. Do I wish there was a new E ticket in the MK? Of course! Am I happy with the new ending of SSE? Not really (more on that in an upcoming trip report). But overall I had a wonderful time. And I'll strongly challenge anyone who tries to make me a Defender of Mediocrity. That's simply not so.
Originally Posted By demderedoseguys >So what, should I have to read here how nasty WDW is and let it ruin my family vacation? I don't think so..< You answered your own question and that's the point. I go to WDW 3 times a year and the negativity (truth) about some of the things posted by others does not affect me. What does affect me is the negatives (truths) that I see there for myself. Nothing is perfect, but WDW used to be about as close to perfection as one could ask for. Now, I'm not so sure, although in today's society people don't seem to have the standards we had way back when.
Originally Posted By ChiMike Dan, I look forward to your review on SSE. I would enjoy discussing it with you.
Originally Posted By Members Only >Members only, A phenomenal post. Very well written. Knowing that your current position in life comes with many options available to you, and only going off of what you presented in your post, I would enthusiastically suggest that you take an offered position in Orlando if Disney offers. I don't think anyone would disagree with the logic that you should try to effect change from within. The worst that can happen is that you quit. You never want to regret passing up something that you are passionate about. Passion alone can really put you on your way to succeeding in life. I also agree with the notion that a large part of the remaining "positives" left at WDW are items that were designed a long, long time ago by leaders and creators who, in part, haven't worked for Disney in a long, long time. It is off those "positives" that the Orlando leadership pumps their current strategies, while at the same time having disdain for the policies and principles that led to the creation of these positives in the first place. >>but basically got roundly criticised by all and sundry for daring to say the SSE refurb was, on the whole a terrible mess,<< Not only is it a "terrible mess". It a CRYSTAL CLEAR example of how poorly WDI is run. How a few people, who think they are creative, are allowed to run around and systematically put into place long-term assets that will have 1/10th the shelf life their predecessors had. They are given the authority, to time and time again, be incorrect about what the guests want. And then at the same time reading about jockeying for political advantage and free dinners at Napa Rose. SSE is a CRYSTAL CLEAR example of how bad it is because it shows the regression in what BRAND NEW things WDI is capable of creating. =+-Anyone can clean up show scenes created 30 years ago.-+= When it comes to ADDING. CREATING. CREATING something new, WDI fails miserably. Not only that but they take what was an inspiring score & narration from the time it was installed in the 90s and make it sound like some Nickelodeon “Learn history in 10 minutes†short. The original script was written by some of the finest minds in our country, this current script displays almost the same amount of brain-power that was exhibited in the SGE show script. But, hey, it's a British accent, and, she's a woman to boot! How futuristic and cutting edge! I wonder if there was a lot of black-slapping going on once they had the final cut. I wonder how many jokes were made about the old silly, Nixonian soundtrack. Like I said, A CRYSTAL CLEAR example of how VERY sick WDI is. And how we keep trusting the SAME people, and the SAME consultants, to, maybe-just-maybe, deliver. Only to get the SAME sub-par results time and time again. It's too bad John L. didn't really have the house cleaning many originally hoped for. As has been for the last 15 years, folks can continue arguing about budgets, or today's guest, the Walmart effect, or even technology, but as I have since 1999, I will continue stressing how much of these problems lie within WDI. It doesn't matter how big the budget, WDI will find a way to be inefficient and ineffective.< Thank you. I have to say, personally the quality of posts here seem to be of a much higher standard than many other Disney forums. I agree about taking the position in Orlando. It’s just there are other things I would like to do first before working for the so called “Disney parksâ€, specifically working in the film industry. Working for Disney full time how-ever is defiantly on my agenda for the future, I just hope to enter the company at a position where I can really make a difference. I also agree whole-heartedly that the majority of offerings left at WDW are from another era of Imagineering. The current Imagaineers are truly standing on the shoulders of giants, and to be personally honest it seems they are either not up to the task, or do not care enough to ever be up to the task. I hate to generalise all of the current employees at WDI, like I said I believe there are still many creative gems left within WDI who truly care about Disney, it’s just I can only judge on the work that comes out of WDI, and currently the work is poor with a few exceptions. This can only lead me to believe that WDI still has a poisonous corporate culture in place, and that a fair few people working at WDI should not be working there in the first place. I also agree one hundred percent in relation to SSE. It truly does highlight how mismanaged and creatively bereft WDI seems to have become. I feel many people ask the wrong questions when it comes to the restoration of SSE. Instead of asking is the new score any good, or does Dame Judie Dench suit SSE as a narrator, they should be questioning WDI in the need for changing the narrator, script, and score in the first place. Surely these are areas in which the attraction clearly all ready excelled, so what was the need to waste the restoration budget on areas that did not need fixing? Surely this money could have been spent much more wisely in other areas of the attraction? The same goes for the installation of touch screens. It just stinks of somebody within the WDC screaming “Interactivity, that’s what the kids want. See we have research, lots of research that shows kids these days like interactivity. Look, look how many of these new fangled games consoles are sold everyday. Interactivity that’s where it’s at!†Buzz-words now take pride of place over any form of true creativity. Part of the problem with the WDC, and WDI is not that they are aiming to high and failing, but that they are aiming to low and succeeding. It is mediocrity at its best in many recent examples. Oh, I also noticed in one of your earlier posts you praised Typhoon Lagoon as one of the true gems left at WDW. I have to agree. It truly is a great example of Imagineering at its best; one can not help be engulfed in the time, and the place of the tropical setting. I still have lucid childhood memories of Miss Tilly spouting streams of water from her pipes every 15 minutes, with a fog horn blaring out and a tidal wave roaring into the beach. This is one of the ways I can tell what a great job Imagineering did here, the fact that I still have vivid memories of a time, a place, a sound, a feeling, an emotion. It’s something WDI needs to get back to. We can only hope.
Originally Posted By Members Only >Hmm.. Members Only needs to take that job so once he (or she) is powerful enough to make major decisions at Disney he (or she) can recall that merf (that'd be me) agreed and needs a job < Haha. I'm sure I will. If anything for your service to the Disney community in posting picture updates, and if not for anything else but for speaking the truth when it comes to WDW’s many failings as of late, even if it gets you criticised on WDW Magic, lol.
Originally Posted By BeautysBeast like WDW or not..keep coming back like u do.WE enjoy your hard earned tourists dollars here..word!!
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<So from now on I will ignore Florida for a while, and I try to encourage others to do likewise.>> This is an example of what kennect was talking about. To express your own disappointment with WDW is one thing. To try to encourage others to stay away is a very different animal. I think it does a great disservice to those who are thinking about going for the first time and come to a place like LP for information. Most people in the U.S. do not have the resources to take a vacation at DLP or TDL. That is not a choice for them, especially now that the U.S. dollar is worth about 17 cents everywhere else. To suggest they should is like telling a poor person that they would be more likely to get a job if they wore designer clothes. Remember, the typical first time visitor to WDW does not have experience with any of the other Disney parks. And being first time visitors, they have no experience with what WDW was back in the "golden era". These folks will be comparing WDW against their local Six Flags or whatever, and WDW will look FANTASTIC in the comparison. Why rain on their parade? And it DOES make a difference. The first time I went to Disneyland I was really looking forward to staying at the Disneyland Hotel. Then I read a huge number of negative comments about it on these boards and it really took away from my anticipation for the trip. Now of course once I was there I could judge for myself that although the hotel had its faults, it was still one of the most magical places I'd ever been. I don't know about most people, but for me the anticipation of a Disney trip is one of the best parts. Your actual trip is gone and done in 10 days or whatever. The pleasure of anticipation keeps you excited for months in advance. Why take away from that excitement? I'm not quite sure what should be done about this. As I said at the beginning, I think anyone has the right to express disappointment in WDW. But I truly think it is wrong to actively discourage people from going to WDW. I really hate to see the joy of anticipation taken away for so many first time visitors.
Originally Posted By BeautysBeast Im posting this wearing my red mickey bathing suit i recently purchased at DLP, at the Newport beach club resort on property.Great day out here as most of em are.Time for a swim. later!
