Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I try not to be negative on newbies threads, but when I hear about someone from the middle of America going to WDW for the millionth time but haven't been to DL, or someone like bloona who has never been to DLP, but opts for the much further WDW for the nth time, I try to convince them to try something else. And with the newbies, I try to talk about the OMG do not miss experiences of Epcot, Wishes et al. My point is, if I stop going to WDW, they will not notice. But if I write about disappointments, or how the place could be plussed (more buses, power spray the sidewalks of the MK etc.) then maybe, just maybe, other people will speak out, and maybe Disney will fix the situ. I just cannot believe how contrasting our visit to WDW in 2000 compared to 2006 was, or the fact that DLP became cleaner and friendlier. That is shocking. And when I see the quality Marriott, or the Grand Californian delivers compared to the Animal Kingdom Lodge, it makes me want to scream. We know WDW is fab if you have never been, and for those of us that have, there is much still to love. But toons, thrills, dinorama et al are not a great direction of travel IMHO. I waste my time debating this stuff because I care. The gap between Disney and the others is narrowing, and I don't like it. Disney has always been head and shoulders above the rest, but now it's maybe nose up. That to me is awful for an obsessive, compulsive life long fan.
Originally Posted By mousermerf Trippy - one has to wonder what Disney did to breed such contempt. Honestly, i dont think it's unjustified. If Disney has made people angry enough for them to tell other people not to goto WDW, it's just the same if they had done things right and the word of mouth was spreading positively.
Originally Posted By MPierce I see nothing wrong with a person comparing the quality of the different Disney Resorts. I think most people here are mature enough to decide for themselves where they want to spend their money. I think if a person can be persuaded so easily my another persons' written word, they already have a real problem. There are many excellent posters on LP. I just happen to think Spirit, and TDLFAN were two of the best. I think the number of post on this topic will demonstrate that.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Trippy - one has to wonder what Disney did to breed such contempt. << I really think it's not contempt, more like disappointment. When I see some of the things that WDW is doing now it doesn't make me hate the place. It only makes me sad about the state of things, and hope that the situation will improve.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I feel like a " lost minion "! Where is my fearless leader Spirit of 74?>> At WDW ...where else? And nice to see you too! <<Where is that great World Traveler TDLFAN? How am I suppose to abandon my Redneck Right-wing lifestyle without your help, and guidance?>> The first step: stop watching FOX News ... <<Am I destined to live this Non- Cosmpolitan life in total ignorance, and a self indused bliss. ( As you can tell, I'm not above a little A** Kissing! )>> Who knows? It might work ... at WDW barely a day and already have major dining 'issues' ... anyone here know who replaced Rilous Carter as Epcot Food and Beverage head?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Spirit, I have to tell you this...I like you a lot better when you are just posting as a simple LP user, not when you are posting as a gossip...You really come across as a nice guy and I am sure you are...>> You know I never considered myself a stereotypical 'good guy' but the more people I meet the better I become ... funny thing about humanity. And understand most of what I've posted in the past isn't 'gossip' perse, but rather tales of what really goes on behind the scenes. Anyhow, got a FastPass that's waiting!
Originally Posted By MPierce >> The first step: stop watching FOX News ... << I can't, I'm hopelessly addicted. >> You know I never considered myself a stereotypical 'good guy' but the more people I meet the better I become ...funny thing about humanity. << This sounds like a possible Mid-Life Crisis. >> And understand most of what I've posted in the past isn't 'gossip' perse, but rather tales of what really goes on behind the scenes. << I do miss that, but most of all I miss how your topics of interest use to morph into their own little world. I find mass confussion so enjoyable. >> Anyhow, got a FastPass that's waiting! << TRADER!!! >> Who knows? It might work . << I'll try harder next time! >> ... at WDW barely a day and already have major dining 'issues' ... anyone here << Please elaborate when you get time. >> At WDW ...where else? << Relax, and enjoy yourself. Just keep in touch when you feel like it.
Originally Posted By ChiMike Great posts Merf & Pierce. I concur. I can't imagine someone trying to tell a movie or art critic not to be negative because it's a great feeling to anticipate the next Indy/Batman movie or next art/music show. And I agree that the onus is on Disney for people who might not be happy with the current offerings. It's not like a bunch of Disney fans woke up and decided to be unhappy with what they once loved. I think, if anything, some 'defenders of first timers' don't give the American consumer enough credit. Disney sure doesn't. I think anyone going to WDW for the first time chooses to do so, chooses to outlay that expense, with the attitude that they are in store for the time of their life. If they didn't feel that way, I'm not sure they would be spending the money in the first place. "Geez, Ive never been to Florida, never been to a Disney park, I have this $5,000 vacation package lined-up, and some strangers on a Disney fan board are being very critical. Hmmm, I'm going to go ahead and spend that money on this unknown and be very nervous and negative about what is in store for me." That just doesn't sound rational. If someone is willing to spend that chunk of change on something they've never been to. Never experienced somewhere else. Well, they are going to be pretty mentally committed to what they are going to get. No message board is going to force their hand in spending that money with a negative predisposition.
Originally Posted By ChiMike <<>> Anyhow, got a FastPass that's waiting! << TRADER!!!>> Hey in this rat race called visiting the Walt Disney World Resort, a Disney Parks offering, Where Dreams come true, I give credit to anyone (ethically) trying to make their stay more enjoyable. I'll be the first person you see hitting the FP machines. I just advise everyone to do so knowing that this is something that was never neccessary and that it is not the ideal system for the company and the guest population. It gives a whole other meaning to the line in COP about the rat race. Ahh, for the good ol' days when you could just show up, stroll around, ride attractions impulsively, randomly run into a character, grab some food, etc. Between the need to schedule bathroom breaks and the every-reaching email mobile device I don't know how people can truly escape the rat race. Oh, well, to each their own.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Hey in this rat race called visiting the Walt Disney World Resort, a Disney Parks offering, Where Dreams come true, I give credit to anyone (ethically) trying to make their stay more enjoyable. I'll be the first person you see hitting the FP machines. << I'll be the person standing behind you. I just think fast pass has added to the rat race. I use it, but I don't think it's a good thing long term.
Originally Posted By ChiMike It hasn't even been a good thing thus far. While people are speeding down the FP queue chuckling at what a racket FP is they are also losing out on something much more significant. FP has deprived the guest community from more (abstract) storytelling for their theme park dollar. Now maybe some folks are okay with that. But in the long run like Pierce says it only points to a inferior way of doing things. Look no farther than DCA to see what happens when care is not put into guests' approach to a show building or queue line. When care is not put into a queue. Maybe the original intention is honest... "No reason to spend money on a queue with FP, right?" However, magnify the barebones queue/FP strategy park-wide and all of a sudden you have a park that appears superficial. I will certainly give Joe Rohde credit for that aspect of Everest. He certainly avoided those no-brainer DCA mistakes. There isn't much else post-fp to be very thrilled about in this regard. Again, look at DCA's ToT.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 ^^^You're right. FP on Star Tours would be a shame. While it would be nice to be able to do more attractions because I have FP, I've enjoyed conversations with some of the people I've talked to during all the zig-zagging, and I'd miss that interacting with strangers.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I will certainly give Joe Rohde credit for that aspect of Everest. << Absolutely, if you use Fast Pass you miss more than half the entertainment, which is the queue. Joe Rohde gives me hope that other people in WDI will give it that kind of an effort. I truly think he is from the old school of presenting Disney attractions. Give him the righr budget, and he will crank out a masterpiece. Fast Pass also is starting to dictate the pace of so many WDW guest. At rope drop they run to get a Fast Pass first thing. Disney Parks were meant to be taken at a slow pace. You miss the entire purpose of the park if you don't take the time to look at all the little details. The thrill you get from a ride only last a few minutes, but the journey of getting there last a lifetime.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<That just doesn't sound rational. If someone is willing to spend that chunk of change on something they've never been to. Never experienced somewhere else. Well, they are going to be pretty mentally committed to what they are going to get. No message board is going to force their hand in spending that money with a negative predisposition.>> Sorry, I don't agree. People without WDW experience can be very worried about if they have made the proper choices. I can't count the number of posts I've seen where someone questions if they should cancel their reservations at Caribbean Beach because they've been reading a bunch of bad reviews. People who wonder if they should cancel their vacation because someone told them the weather was intolerable in July. Now you are probably going to say that is good... people spending that kind of money need to know. I disagree. Reactions to the resorts are very personalized; some people love resorts that others hate. I'll never forget our super-wealthy and successful Cape Cod Joe talking about how he loved Pop Century. Go figure. If a person thought they liked the sounds of Caribbean Beach, why not let them try it? I know you guys are just so much more knowledgeable and sophisticated than I am, but I think you actually like raining on other people's parade. The one thing I would do for a first timer is hand them a Birnbaum's and tell them to stay the hell off the internet.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I know you guys are just so much more knowledgeable and sophisticated than I am, but I think you actually like raining on other people's parade. The one thing I would do for a first timer is hand them a Birnbaum's and tell them to stay the hell off the internet. << Good advice Trippy. However my contention is if they only read the negative post instead of an assortment of post they are very stupid. It doesn't take long to realize that a Disney forum is a conglomerate of different opinions. I think a person should be able to decide what is in their best interest. I think they can benefit from a combination of the negative as well as the positive
Originally Posted By dshyates From what I have found, for the most part, fan run forums are seem overly critical if you lurch through the threads. But ask one question and you get a lot of really good advice. Mostly the grousers saying, It is a wonderful place, you'll love it, pay no attention to us grumpy old guys, we bitch about the place, but we still love it more than anywhere else. Warts and All.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Here's the biggest problem I have with people recommending that you go to Disneyland rather than WDW. By advising people to skip WDW you are telling them to skip what I feel are the two finest U.S. Disney Parks -- Epcot and Animal Kingdom. I agree that Disneyland Park is a superior park to WDW's Magic Kingdom. But is Disneyland Park really SO MUCH superior that it is worth giving up Epcot and Animal Kingdom in return?? No way. For people outside of the Southern California area; Disneyland, in my opinion, is a park you see after you've visited WDW a few times and are now looking for a "boutique park" experience.
Originally Posted By danyoung >FP on Star Tours would be a shame.< Unless I'm mistaken, I'm pretty sure Florida's Star Tours does indeed have FP as of about 3 days ago. That's one of the few queues that I really enjoy spending time in, but more often than not the standby line is pretty short anyway. >No message board is going to force their hand in spending that money with a negative predisposition.< I'm afraid I have to counter that with personal experience. About 10 years or so ago, as I was just getting into this online Disney thing, I was also planning a trip to DL. After reading many of Al Lutz's columns as well as other posts around the web, I was really feeling sad that DL, the place I loved since I was a kid, had fallen so far into disrepair. I was fully expecting to go through the gates and see that Six Flags quality had taken over, cuz that's what everyone on the web was saying. But I went anyway, and you can guess what I found. Main Street was sparkling, the music was exactly as I remembered, the rides were wonderful, and the overall experience was a total thrill for me. If I squinted my eyes and held my head just right I could see the problems that the online folks had been talking about. But they simply didn't even begin to rise up to the level of being a concern for anyone but the several-days-a-week park stormer. I really learned a valuable lesson there - to not always believe what I read online, especially with all the passion that us super Disney fans can bring into play.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 I think people who go to the parks frequently will more likely see deterioration in upkeep. Whereas someone who goes every 2-3 years (me) is just happy to be there, and won't notice the negative as much. Is there enough at DL to keep you on property for a whole week? There sure is at WDW. I've read here that some years ago, DL had gotten pretty shabby, now they've fixed it all up, so I hope they'll do the same for WDW. Sorry, I'm married to Mr Negativity, so I try to find the positive in all this.
