Originally Posted By ChiMike As in terms for myself, and maybe even Spirit if I may be so bold, these things do not ruin vacations for us either. We're not so simple as to not enjoy ourselves while seeing problems that one would see after going for so many years. And there are plenty of message boards, trip planning areas here and elsewhere, where there is a lot of benign conversation. And, on the other hand there are some posters who are absolute in likes and dislikes - where because of this policy or that they are now "boycotting Disney". I hope no one is putting me in this box. That is not what a couple of us have ever said or done. We come to this forum for an in-depth discussion and commentary on this company and this division. Just as the blogging phenomenon has carried to the next step in today's internet world. If that sort of discussion is no longer suitable for this forum (or it should be in a blog) than we will go somewhere else so as not to ruin folks' trip planning. While I might not visit WDW anywhere near the frequency I used to I do not advocate my current Disney vacation habits as the solution. At this stage in MY life, DL and TDR are more appealing. That should not take away from what WDW offers. It is nice to be posting again and I hope others think the same. I try to be fair with my criticisms and not be an absolutist. While I often get worked up about WDI, I do admit that the Nemo installations and a handful of the foreign projects have been very impressive.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<It is nice to be posting again and I hope others think the same. I try to be fair with my criticisms and not be an absolutist. While I often get worked up about WDI, I do admit that the Nemo installations and a handful of the foreign projects have been very impressive.>> ChiMike, I've always enjoyed your posts, even when I haven't agreed with them. I hope you stick around for awhile. << We come to this forum for an in-depth discussion and commentary on this company and this division. Just as the blogging phenomenon has carried to the next step in today's internet world. If that sort of discussion is no longer suitable for this forum (or it should be in a blog) than we will go somewhere else so as not to ruin folks' trip planning.>> I have no problem with most of the discussions that go on here. I had a problem with one poster saying he was going to try and encourage people to stay away from WDW. <<So from now on I will ignore Florida for a while, and I try to encourage others to do likewise.>> I think even that poster though was engaging in a bit of hyperbole, and did not mean it literally. At least I hope so. One thing that might be nice is to separate the information type posts from the critical reviews. Perhaps we could have a section for "WDW General Info" and another section for "WDW Discerning Discussions".
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>><<So from now on I will ignore Florida for a while, and I try to encourage others to do likewise.>> I think even that poster though was engaging in a bit of hyperbole, and did not mean it literally. At least I hope so.<<< That poster was me, and I was totally serious. for those that have been to the other resorts and think WDW is their fav, fine. But there are so many Brits that have never been to DLP even though it's much closer, or DL, where it can be cheaper, they are the ones I tell to try the other resorts.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo And yes, unless I decide to take a cruise or visit East Coast friends, I will not be returning to WDW for a while as I felt my experience in 2006 was a real let down. However, my subsequent trips to DLP and DL were FAR superior.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 Telling people to try other parks, isn't the same as telling them to stay away from any one park. I would love to see the dungeon in the DLP castle, but that's the only draw for me. I'm happy to go to WDW, stay in one hotel for a week, and not have to spend hours every day to get to some other place. If I only had a day or 2, sure then another Disney park would be fine, but for me and my situation, WDW is it. One daughter went to DL for her honeymoon, another daughter wants to go there in a couple years when her kids are old enough to remember their only trip to DL. It's too long a drive to the San Diego Zoo.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo bobbelee9 - I would much rather go and stay a week in DL or DLP - they are fantastic for that length of time. And DLP blows every single shared attraction at the MK out of the water! Really, it does. Phantom Manor has a different story and scenes, BTM is longer and much better, Adventure Isle, Alice's Curious Labrynth and a number of walk throughs are totally unique to Paris, PotC is nearly twice as long as the WDW counterpart, IASW is the best version world wide, Space Mountain has a synchronized soundtrack with 3 inversions. The DLP stage shows are superior to almost anything at WDW (Nemo is good, but I prefer Tarzan and LK in DLP). I love Epcot and DAK, but I prefer DL and DLP.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo We spent 6 days at DL last month, and still did not do everything. And we have often spent a week at DLP quite happily.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<As in terms for myself, and maybe even Spirit if I may be so bold, these things do not ruin vacations for us either. We're not so simple as to not enjoy ourselves while seeing problems that one would see after going for so many years.>> I'll repeat what I've said MANY, MANY times, if I didn't LOVE WDW even now, I wouldn't go. Period. That's not ever what my criticisms are about. I visited Epcot this week and had an absolutely fantastic time. Really. Were there issues? Sure ... from the inability to have operating screens and narration on SSE ... to getting the same stir fry I've been getting at Sunshine Seasons, except I got half the amount of food I've been getting (HINT TO MANAGEMENT: When you have to request some pineapple in your sweet and sour chicken and the CM literally picks up one morsel and place it on your food, you aren't doing your jobs) ... to the fact the pavement has way too much gum blotches on it ... things aren't perfect. But it's still an amazing place to visit. <<And there are plenty of message boards, trip planning areas here and elsewhere, where there is a lot of benign conversation. And, on the other hand there are some posters who are absolute in likes and dislikes - where because of this policy or that they are now "boycotting Disney". I hope no one is putting me in this box. That is not what a couple of us have ever said or done. We come to this forum for an in-depth discussion and commentary on this company and this division. Just as the blogging phenomenon has carried to the next step in today's internet world. If that sort of discussion is no longer suitable for this forum (or it should be in a blog) than we will go somewhere else so as not to ruin folks' trip planning.>> Mike, I'll just repeat what I've said, if potential WDW visitors read legit critical comments here and use that as an excuse to not visit, they're simply feeble-minded. Normal, mentally healthy, adults ... they just don't cancel trips because the Spirit said the MK was filthy Thursday night (and boy, was it ever). <<While I might not visit WDW anywhere near the frequency I used to I do not advocate my current Disney vacation habits as the solution. At this stage in MY life, DL and TDR are more appealing. That should not take away from what WDW offers.>> WDW will always be unique and special. EPCOT, DAK and the resorts and recreational opps are worth a trip on their own ... and let's not even talk about a fine dinner at the California Grill ... that's worth a drive up Fla's Turnpike at gas prices only George Bush and the Saudi oil sheiks could love. <<It is nice to be posting again and I hope others think the same. I try to be fair with my criticisms and not be an absolutist. While I often get worked up about WDI, I do admit that the Nemo installations and a handful of the foreign projects have been very impressive.>> Agreed. I actually just read Randy Savage's trip report down the report board and found it fascinating reading. Since the guy hasn't been there in a decade it was so interesting to see that he noticed almost all of the problems that I have brought up regularly here and STILL had a great trip. You see, you can love Aunt Martha, but still realize she's got a bit of a funky odor, isn't quite as classy and doesn't dress the same as she did 20 years ago.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Just one other comment ... this visit to O-Town has been partially business and also to check out Aquatica (which is fantastic and already making a dent in Disney's H2O park business) ... and I've got to say that Disney really needs to stop listening to its crack(pot) marketing team and consultants and start some MAJOR (i.e. not repurposed DL parades, a rebuilt 1975 Space Mountain debuting in 2011, American Idol wannebes and shoot-em up D-Tickets) reinvestment into its parks because Busch and NBC-Universal are doing just that and they will put a hurting on the Mouse. Much of Disney's Orlando offerings are stale and Magical Celebrations BS isn't going to make anyone plan a trip.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<And DLP blows every single shared attraction at the MK out of the water! Really, it does. Phantom Manor has a different story and scenes, BTM is longer and much better, Adventure Isle, Alice's Curious Labrynth and a number of walk throughs are totally unique to Paris, PotC is nearly twice as long as the WDW counterpart, IASW is the best version world wide, Space Mountain has a synchronized soundtrack with 3 inversions. The DLP stage shows are superior to almost anything at WDW (Nemo is good, but I prefer Tarzan and LK in DLP).>> Sorry. There is absolutely no way you could ever convince me that ANY park is worth giving up Epcot and Animal Kingdom for. I've been to DL twice in the past few years and I love it. As I said, I agree that it is superior to the MK's Magic Kingdom. But it is not a park I would want to do EVERY year instead of WDW. I would miss Epcot and Animal Kingdom too much. I don’t know what the heck happened on your last trip to WDW, but your extreme reaction seems to be based on something more than just the condition of the park.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<reinvestment into its parks because Busch and NBC-Universal are doing just that and they will put a hurting on the Mouse.>> I've never been to the Busch parks, but I think that Universal Florida has been very competitive with Disney for the past 10 years. In fact for the past 3-5 years I think Universal Studios has been considerably better than the Disney Studios. I don't see it as being limited to either WDW or Universal. I like seeing both as often as I can. The one drawback is since we always have an annual pass to WDW, Universal is an extra expense that we wouldn't have for one more day in a Disney Park. But Universal is so good that we still visit it about every other trip.
Originally Posted By BeautysBeast DLP really is an amazing experience,especially the castle dungeon,Space mountain and phantom manor.RnRc seems faster then in orlando also.
Originally Posted By pixiedust1 1 NEW! RoadTrip Sat 4/12/2008 10:01p <<reinvestment into its parks because Busch and NBC-Universal are doing just that and they will put a hurting on the Mouse.>> I've never been to the Busch parks, but I think that Universal Florida has been very competitive with Disney for the past 10 years. In fact for the past 3-5 years I think Universal Studios has been considerably better than the Disney Studios.) You are mistaken, Universal Florida's attendance had been going down as Disney's has increased, .. Universal Florida is hurting big time... get your facts straight... it's like a ghost town there... they can't hold a candle to Disney... you need to check the facts before you make a bold statement like that...
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "You are mistaken, Universal Florida's attendance had been going down as Disney's has increased, .. Universal Florida is hurting big time... get your facts straight... it's like a ghost town there... they can't hold a candle to Disney... you need to check the facts before you make a bold statement like that..." I'm trying to figure out where Road Trip specifically mentioned attendance. One could read his statement as that he likes the overall quality and offerings of Universal more than Disney over the last 3-5 years. Simply because more people might attend one park more than another doesn't invalidate that opinion.
Originally Posted By dshyates "You are mistaken, Universal Florida's attendance had been going down as Disney's has increased, .. Universal Florida is hurting big time... get your facts straight... " As for keeping the facts straight, Universals numbers falling? Here, I did a little research for you: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/3k6b5j" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/3k6b5j</a>
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I've never been to the Busch parks, but I think that Universal Florida has been very competitive with Disney for the past 10 years. In fact for the past 3-5 years I think Universal Studios has been considerably better than the Disney Studios.>> Agreed. But it lacks the Disney magic (yeah, that was sarcasm). I think Universal blows away the Park Formerly Known as The Disney-MGM Studios. And it's getting better all the time. Unlike the disaster that is the SSE redo, Universal took a tired old attraction -- Earthquake -- and updated/plussed it into Disaster and I got news for you, it was a very, very well-done effort. Having Christopher Walken obviously was a plus, but having a creative vision that didn't include black, empty spaces a la Disney (Imagination anyone?) helped too! And The Simpsons really looks like it's going to be THE RIDE in O-Town this summer ... moreso than Toy Story Midway Mania. As to Busch parks, you should check them out. Sea World is wonderful and Aquatica is now my favorite water park in Florida. <<I don't see it as being limited to either WDW or Universal. I like seeing both as often as I can. The one drawback is since we always have an annual pass to WDW, Universal is an extra expense that we wouldn't have for one more day in a Disney Park. But Universal is so good that we still visit it about every other trip.>> Until very recently, I had annuals to WDW, DL, DLP, UNI-FLA, and UNI-Hollywood. I'm now down to just the first two, but Uni and Busch are gonna have me within the year. They are actively investing in their product. Disney is pushing stale offerings, a dining plan disaster (that allows a steak to go up $5 overnight), DVC sales and private parties that people want no part of.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<As for keeping the facts straight, Universals numbers falling? Here, I did a little research for you: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/3k6b5j>>" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/3k6b5j>></a> What do facts ever have to do with any discussion here?
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Unlike the disaster that is the SSE redo, Universal took a tired old attraction -- Earthquake -- and updated/plussed it into Disaster and I got news for you, it was a very, very well-done effort. >> The reviews on this have been mixed, at best. You are the first person I haver read who said that this re-do was very, very well-done. TDLFAN did a nice review of this refurb not too long ago. << And The Simpsons really looks like it's going to be THE RIDE in O-Town this summer ... moreso than Toy Story Midway Mania. >> The real ride in Orlando this summer is going to be the dip in attendance that is starting to build steam with the growing domestic recession. Even the Europeans won't save this summer's attendance dive. Nobody's attraction is going to drive attendance higher this year. But on a side note, I find it increasingly interesting that you can have side by criticisms of the cartoon-intrusion at Disney parks while praising the same toon-filled venues at Universal and other parks. It just seems odd.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>Even the Europeans won't save this summer's attendance dive. Nobody's attraction is going to drive attendance higher this year.<<< Especially as there seems to be a real hike in airfares from the UK! It feels like fares are up 40% on last year, a mix of fuel increase, new environmental taxes, subsidy for Heathrow Terminal 5, and I swear they are playing on the weak dollar knowing our money goes much further in the US than Europe right now.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I'm trying to figure out where Road Trip specifically mentioned attendance. One could read his statement as that he likes the overall quality and offerings of Universal more than Disney over the last 3-5 years. Simply because more people might attend one park more than another doesn't invalidate that opinion.>> Bingo. I was talking about quality, but it is nice to see from subsequent posts that attendance is increasing also. Universal has many outstanding attractions. Terminator 2: 3-D is an outstanding attraction. It blows away every other 3-D movie and in my opinion is the second best attraction in Orlando (#1 for me is Tower of Terror). The Universal Horror Makeup Show is the type of edutainment that Disney Studios needs. Not only is it informative, but wonderfully funny. It gets about 10 times the laughs that the laugh floor gets. E-T has a queue that beats anything Disney offers at WDW except Star Tours. The ride itself is light-years beyond Peter Pan and similar attractions. Jaws is another major winner. They put real excitement into their 7 minute boat ride. The effects are first rate and the skippers do an outstanding job of building the excitement. Twister still leaves me in awe every time I experience it. It is one of the few attractions in Orlando (along with Terminator) that routinely draws applause at the end of the show. Men In Black is a fantastic attraction that blows away Buzz Lightyear in both concept and execution. I could continue, but you get the general idea. Plus Universal has something else the Disney Studios lacks... New Shows and Attractions!! By the way... there is always a lot of talk about how the Disney CM are so much better than the Universal Employees. It may have been like that at one time, but it certainly isn’t now. Disney’s CM have dropped in quality while Universal’s has gotten better to where now they are pretty much equal in my mind.
