Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct <<<The real ride in Orlando this summer is going to be the dip in attendance that is starting to build steam with the growing domestic recession>>> The prices are too high for the most of U.S. period. The middle class is being squeezed too much and "priced-out" of a causal Orlando trip. <<<and I swear they are playing on the weak dollar knowing our money goes much further in the US than Europe right now.>>> I feel like the new MEXICO. Maybe I should develop some street entertainment skills to "wow" the foreign tourist!! <<<Universal has many outstanding attractions.>> I still say ISLANDS OF Adventure's ride "The Cat In The Hat" sets a new dark ride standard. With the new Harry Potter area, I am very excited about a visit. I am not excited about going back to Disney anytime soon. I have been going on a regular basis since the 90's and bought an AP after vi sting Animal Kingdom in 1999. Last year I did not renew after the new resort AP booking policies and I have no intention on renewing the pass. We are even skipping GAY DAYS this year. And the work I have read over and over in the previous posts is "stale" ... Agreed. My next Disney visit will be 2012 in CA to see the new DCA park. Unless major investments at WDW show up before 2012. In the meantime, I will go elsewhere. When I was in school for industrial design, I went to WDW (89) and was stunned. It was like the best minds in the design business were given unlimited resources to just 'create' and make the impossible completely real and possible. It was a celebration of design and art. Floored me. When ToT and SPLASH opened - I thought ... "all right! Disney is showing it's muscle" ... they had me ... I haven't had that feeling since the opening of Animal Kingdom. If they still have the commitment, it is not translating to me as a visitor. I want to "feel" excited to visit WDW again.
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct I meant to say And the WORD I have read over and over in the previous posts is "stale" ... Agreed.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Well Dennis, I have always enjoyed reading your post. While I like Expedition Everest, Soarin' and LMA, I feel little reason to go to WDW for a while. The spirit of Disney is slowly dying. And the fans, rather than trying to save it, are letting it slip away. That is the most depressing thing of all.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>><<<and I swear they are playing on the weak dollar knowing our money goes much further in the US than Europe right now.>>> I feel like the new MEXICO. Maybe I should develop some street entertainment skills to "wow" the foreign tourist!! <<< Funny, it felt like it too (well not quite). But for once, it felt like Europe was indeed richer than America, and not just in the currency exchange rate. I was shocked at the degredation I witnessed on our trip. I tried to not let it affect our trip, but boy, I did feel like I am raising my kids in a better environment, even if our weather sucks.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip A couple of points... First of all, Disney appears to be reading customer sentiment correctly. The attendance at their American theme parks is currently at or close to all-time highs (I don't believe that is the case with the parks in Japan or France). They must be doing something right. Even when they do stuff that I think is incredibly stupid, they end up being right. When I first heard about the "Bibbity Bobbity Boutique" I thought right... like anyone is going to pay $200 to have their kid dressed up like a princess. Well you know what? Many of them do. During our most recent visit there was a Bibbity Bobbity Girl on at least half the busses between our resort and the parks. And this was at a slow time, when the busses generally didn't have more than 20 people on them. My next point is that Americans don't dream as much anymore. Disney is better off appealing to what we want NOW than creating a dream for the future. We've become too cynical to dream. Too disappointed to dream. Too darned busy to dream. Many Americas are just trying to survive the week... survive the month. We ain't got time to dream. Fortunately for old guys like me, we still dream. The declining quality of American life hasn't been able to take that from us. George W. Bush hasn't been able to take that from us. But the young adults of today? They grew up during the soul-less 80's. They don't dream. They don't know how to dream. They don’t have the time to learn how to dream. I hate to say the above; it is sad but true.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 "When I first heard about the "Bibbity Bobbity Boutique" I thought right... like anyone is going to pay $200 to have their kid dressed up like a princess. Well you know what? Many of them do." This is one of the things that just disgusts me about the "new" Disney. They take something that on the surface is a rather cute idea, i.e. young girls dressing up as princesses, and turn it into a money-grubbing scheme. They could just have easily charged something reasonable for this - say $30, but instead, they hike up the prices to take advantage of the parents who have to deal with their kids crying that they want to have this done. This is what bothers me so much about the current Disney operation - it's all about profits, profits, PROFITS!! In the old days, I never felt like Disney was just there to make money. But these days, with the constant "hard-sell", it's hard to believe in the so-called "Magic" anymore.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 <<<I was shocked at the degredation I witnessed on our trip. I tried to not let it affect our trip, but boy, I did feel like I am raising my kids in a better environment, even if our weather sucks.>>> Yup, welcome back to America Dave. I'm not against immigrants totally, just the "low class" ones who come here and immediately somehow get on welfare. See it all the time, and it's not encouraging. I don't think you have to be mindless to listen to what other posters say. We've been yes/noing the idea of DDP. Lots of people here made some good points for and against. Hearing both sides is a good thing, and it should HELP you make up your mind.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORGOCH: It ain't just kids that goes 'n cries if'n they don't git made up like one a them 'prissy princesses', plpeters70, ducklin'!! There's been some 'adults' kickin' up their heels fer not bein' able ta afford such nonsense, too! Take my sister--Orwen--fer example. Matter a fact, I'd be mighty grateful if'n ya went 'n took her as far away as poss'ble!!!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Well Dennis, I have always enjoyed reading your post. While I like Expedition Everest, Soarin' and LMA, I feel little reason to go to WDW for a while.>> As someone here who for some strange reason is often labeled a critic of WDW (funny how vicious rumors start!), I must say that there is ALWAYS a good reason to visit WDW! I just took a short last-minute trip to Orlando and didn't get to spend much time at WDW, but I enjoyed almost all of my time. And that was only visiting EPCOT and MK and having no time for my beloved DAK. A bad day at Epcot is better than a good day in most places. And my day was far from bad. The park looked terrific in its flowery splendor and the large spring break contingent gave the place a very dynamic, fun-loving feel. And Peter Noone (as well as the Grass Roots) can still put on entertaining shows too. I think the thing that depressed me most the whole visit was seeing the huge swath of green construction fences about to lay waste to one of the last greenbelts at WDW to make way for the Four Seasons, which I'm sure to stay at but that isn't the point. When Walt said 'here we have enough land for ...' I doubt he foresaw a future in which his company feels land is only valuable if you place something on it. But that's a tale for another day ... I think the biggest concern Disney should have is that a Disney-loving, high-spending, loyal guest like myself spent more time in Busch and Universal parks than Disney ones ... and that I never felt I was missing 'the magic' ... that goes back to the staleness point and I realize that while I can go to the MK, eat a sundae, walk around, watch fireworks, ride Mansion and call it a visit that someone from the UK or Minnesota need and expect more. <<The spirit of Disney is slowly dying.>> Excuse me?!??!!! ;-) The Spirit is alive and well (and will soon descend on your doorstep bearing Mouse materials!) in all of us Disney lovers ... sometimes it just hits you when you're riding BTMRR (still one of O-Town's best coasters) on an unusually, crisp, cool spring night ... you just can't help but smile and realize that this place is amazing ... even if it's inspite of the people charged with maintaining its legacy. <<And the fans, rather than trying to save it, are letting it slip away. That is the most depressing thing of all.>> Not all of us, Dave. I mean, here I am posting again after taking months away. I care. Jon cared so much he forced Marty Sklar to puke up some PR, even if it cost him his place in the LP. As the news came in that Ollie Johnston, the last of Walt's Nine Old Men, passed away, I was reminded that there is no more important time for the fans to be heard than right now. The oldtimers are gone ... dead ... or retired ... or pushed out. Some that remain like Marty are around because they're willing to 'compromise' on the important stuff. And that's why it's important for those of us fans who do care, who don't accept mediocrity or canned press releases to be as vocal as we can when we believe the company is headed in the wrong direction. It can make a difference. Just ask the Night Kingdom team.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Funny, it felt like it too (well not quite). But for once, it felt like Europe was indeed richer than America, and not just in the currency exchange rate. I was shocked at the degredation I witnessed on our trip. I tried to not let it affect our trip, but boy, I did feel like I am raising my kids in a better environment, even if our weather sucks.>> Oh come now you traitor, if George Bush (the dude who broke our Constitution and has done a great job making our government into a borderline theocracy) says our country is doing great economically then he must be right. So what if a drive to Orlando that used to cost $60, set me back $150? So what if 80% of the voices I heard there had those uppity UK accents? So what if I could get into the California Grill on a weekend night without making a PS three months in advance? So what if McMansions that were selling for $800,000 two years ago, now sit finished and unoccupied even after the price has fallen below $500,000? Nope ... our economy is doing great and we as a nation have so much to be proud of ... from the fact we are getting the evildoers in Iraq and bringing those poor people freedom to our great healthcare system to all those jobs WalMart provides. Yep, I've never been prouder to wave the flag than I am now.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<We've become too cynical to dream. Too disappointed to dream. Too darned busy to dream. Many Americas are just trying to survive the week... survive the month. We ain't got time to dream.>> That is so sad Trippy ... and so, so true. Which is why it's great that Disney dreams for us ... and knows that what we want most of all is a couple of cheap pins and a dream fastpass.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<The Spirit is alive and well (and will soon descend on your doorstep bearing Mouse materials!) in all of us Disney lovers ... sometimes it just hits you when you're riding BTMRR (still one of O-Town's best coasters) on an unusually, crisp, cool spring night ... you just can't help but smile and realize that this place is amazing ... even if it's inspite of the people charged with maintaining its legacy.>> Spirit, perhaps without intending to you've nailed the underlying fact. Disney supplies the setting. WE supply the magic. If we all become totally cynical there is nothing that Disney will ever do that could please us. That is not to say we should become Disney apologists. That is not to say that we should ignore faults where they exist. But we need to admit that in the end, the magic comes from our heart, it comes from our spirit. If we don't leave ourselves open to the magic, there is nothing that Disney can do to force it upon us. Disney tries to force it upon us at times today in the belief that we have become too cynical to see the magic ourselves. Sadly, day in and day out we prove to them that their belief is true. We need to stop doing that. We need to open ourselves to the Magic. In the end, the Magic comes from within us. I felt the Magic the last time I was at WDW. I felt the Magic after a wonderful day at Epcot and still felt if after getting off the bus at Saratoga Springs. So I skipped. I'm a freaking 55 year old man (totally sober at the time) and I skipped from the bus stop to the building where my room was. Was my wife appalled? Not really. She said she didn't want to join me in my skipping, but she had no objection to my doing it. You want to know something? Skipping that night was one of the most joyous things I had done in years. You really must try it some time.
Originally Posted By figment1986 <<As to Busch parks, you should check them out. Sea World is wonderful and Aquatica is now my favorite water park in Florida.>> hmm... wait for 2009 or visit Jungala at Busch Gardens about now... heck change in management has made BGT feel cleaner than before... its strange... jungala is really good caliber compared to older busch...
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Some good stuff in here. I need to reply to the key points: Attendance - RT, Paris is also at all time high too. Thanks to the 15th, new parade and shows, refurb and 4 new attractions in WDSP. They are close to making a profit finally, the 1st time in 16 years! Also, I dare say Tokyo with have a record year with the 25th celebrations kicking off today.
Originally Posted By mousermerf Hmm.. "older Busch" was commonly created by a company in Orlando that also did contract work for Imagineering and Universal Creative from time to time. Seriously, aside from the original parks, the Busch parks were pretty much this company's domain. Suppose they changed which company they use?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>But the young adults of today? They grew up during the soul-less 80's. They don't dream. They don't know how to dream. They don’t have the time to learn how to dream.<<< How sad. I like to think I am a dreamer and a doer, and I am trying to raise my kids in the same way. I think part of the problem is people now have too much choice, and the schools do not tend to make education fun. Mix these things together and we have a society in decline. And instead of Disney working to buck the trend (remember when Walt said he would not have a Ferris Wheel, but would spend money on flowers), Disney panders to the masses. Ironically it is short term gain, long term cost models that will degrade the parks.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>I'm not against immigrants totally, just the "low class" ones who come here and immediately somehow get on welfare.<<< Well as an immigrant in the UK, I am quite keen on immigration (where properly managed). Ironically most of the down and outs were wasps - American through and through. Most of the immigrants we met seemed to be very hard working.
