Originally Posted By jkayjs << I was at world showcase this afternoon and and woman came over to my girlfriend and I and asked us to move over on the bench so she could sit and then proceeded to get the rest of her group untill we had to get up with our food and leave. Spirit of 74 and TDlfan represent this group to the fullest.>> Gee this doesn't sound a thing like the Spirit I know. In fact he would condemn such conduct but maybe you know him better. How many times have you spent time with him in a park? If one isn't interested in dissenting opinions it might be best to limit posts to actual questions about specific activities @ WDW. You know "which mod do you prefer and why" or "do you think the guided tours are worth the money" sort of threads. << I don't know about his pictures. I never saw any>> TDLFAN has a real eye and offered up many chances for us all to enjoy all of the Disney parks but of course you have been here long enough that you know that. I guess my real question is how is what's being done on this thread by those that don't agree/like these 2 individuals any different than what these same folks complained they did. And what is that you may ask, it's stating your opinion. Something allowed as long it falls within community standards. Perhaps a little trip to the dictionary is in order. A refresher on the difinition of hipocrit may be enlightning. You have every right to say what you think and in fact to dislike anyone, but you can't have it both ways my friends. Take care all.
Originally Posted By danyoung >Spirit of 74 and TDlfan represent this group to the fullest. After they left this site, everything became calm.< No, everything became boring. Whatever happened to you in the parks with your bench, it has NOTHING to do with either Spirit or TDLFAN. To say it does is just stupid, and shows a vast lack of knowledge of the 2 guys and their personalities.
Originally Posted By blueharvest82 <<No, everything became boring. Whatever happened to you in the parks with your bench, it has NOTHING to do with either Spirit or TDLFAN. To say it does is just stupid, and shows a vast lack of knowledge of the 2 guys and their personalities.>> I can see why you say it became boring, because like them you are trying to start a fight for no reason, have a wonderful and happy evening. Jon
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <>Spirit of 74 and TDlfan represent this group to the fullest. After they left this site, everything became calm.< No, everything became boring. Whatever happened to you in the parks with your bench, it has NOTHING to do with either Spirit or TDLFAN. To say it does is just stupid, and shows a vast lack of knowledge of the 2 guys and their personalities. < agreed Danny...totally - both helped keep thes sitevery interesting... at least someone noticed you were gone for a while --LOL !!! busy time for me too - lots of school board stuff and darn work keeps getting in the way ( feeling like Labuda ) - just thought I'd check in today and saw this thread
Originally Posted By danyoung >I can see why you say it became boring, because like them you are trying to start a fight for no reason.< Jon, I have no problems with starting fights. I have a huge problem with keeping everything nice and sweet just because everything is supposed to be nice and sweet. If someone says something that I perceive is stupid, I'll say so. I don't go out of my way to find the wacky stuff, but I don't dodge it either. And someone comparing a rude family that forces people out of their park benches with TDLFAN and the Spirit is simply ludicrous. If someone wants to take the boys (and me) on, let it be on merits, not fantasy. If you want to say that TDLFAN is intentionally provocative, you won't get much argument from me. Or if you argue that the Spirit has a healthy ego (which he strongly denies), I'll tend to agree with that. But to accuse either of them of outright rudeness to a fellow park goer just shows a lack of knowledge of either of them, and gets me ticked off. But thanks for your wishes that I "have a wonderful and happy evening" - I did!
Originally Posted By jonvn "If you want to say that TDLFAN is intentionally provocative, you won't get much argument from me." That is not an endearing trait, and he's ran off at least one other site because of his attitude. I have no idea if he is rude to people in the park. People sometimes are different in real life than online, but I suspect how they are online is how they are what they are internally. TDLFAN, for example, showed up in my trip report thread to start tossing insults at me because he didn't like an opinion of mine. That's not something that is supportable. That is rude behavior, and it has gotten people to be rather angry with him. I did my best to try and be nice, but it was rather difficult considering his actions. I don't think being able to take nice pictures, if he indeed does, papers over this sort of thing at all. I'm also not surprised he's at micechat, the trailer park of online disney sites, where that sort of behavior is acceptable and encouraged, as long as you do it to the right people. I don't want to engage in Jerry Springer type conversations online about these things. I'd much rather have nice, pleasant conversations about a nice and pleasant subject matter. There is no room here for personal attacks and those who start up conversations in such a mode are not heroes.
Originally Posted By dshyates Hey jonvn, "Glass Houses". Its a Billy Joel album. It's delightful. But thats not what I meant.
Originally Posted By danyoung >I'm also not surprised he's at micechat, the trailer park of online disney sites, where that sort of behavior is acceptable and encouraged, as long as you do it to the right people.< jon, you & I have disagreed many times in the past. I don't agree with most of post 107, but you certainly have the right to your opinion. But to say that micechat is the trailer park of online sites is simply unfair, biased and rude. Just because you have issues with Al Lutz is no reason to take a cheap shot like that. Micechat is no different than other sites, including this one, in that it's a community of folks who want to discuss Disney. I'm a regular there, and have never lived in a trailer park. Cheap, unnecessary shot, jon.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Hey jonvn, "Glass Houses". " I don't go out of my way to be rude to people. I don't back down from fights, but I don't go out of my way try and start them. "But to say that micechat is the trailer park of online sites is simply unfair, biased and rude" I'm sorry, that's how it looks to me. "Just because you have issues with Al Lutz" I have no issues with him, and now avoid discussing him, because people think I have "issues with him." I don't like some things he says sometimes. "I'm a regular there, and have never lived in a trailer park." I never said you, or anyone else who posts there, did. "Cheap, unnecessary shot, jon." If you say so. After attempting to read through that site's forums, I don't agree. I hope TDLFAN will find it very nice there for himself. Best of luck to him.
Originally Posted By demderedoseguys To nobody in particular- you know who you are. Seems to me that a lot of you posters with the issues about the "Disney Villians" I started the thread about are acting in a similar fashion to what they are accusing these two people of. Also seems to me that more people here miss Spirit and TDLFAN's contributions far more than those that are are glad that they're gone. Just an observation.
Originally Posted By MinnieSummer I post enough on this forum to have been flamed by many of you. However, I have always appreciated that everyone has their own opinion and topics like WDW or Disney in general strikes very personal emotions in everyone. I enjoy that the two individuals being discussed here, as well as Darkbeer, Danyoung and the two Trips, have very strong opinions and feelings for Disney -- obviously I do to or I wouldn't be on this site. If the arguments got a little heated so be it -- it reminded me of the family dinner table when politics got discussed. I enjoyed the differing opinions, and also enjoyed being either swayed or not by them. Every LPer lost out when these two chose to leave. We've lost beautiful photos, informed commentary and lively, thought provoking discussions. I hope they will one day come back, but in the mean time I going to visit Mice Chat and see what's happening over there.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I have no idea if he is rude to people in the park. People sometimes are different in real life than online, but I suspect how they are online is how they are what they are internally. *** Interestingly, the whole argument with myself and (a formerly friendly) TDLFAN amounted to how he treated someone in the park (namely DisneySea). He blew off someone who had asked to meet up (on laughingplace) after waiting a mere 5 minutes past the scheduled meeting time (his train was slightly late due to an earthquake, or bad weather or something). The person didn't give him a hard time about it, although he was eager to meet up (having previously arranged to meet up and having come all the way from America and was hoping to meet LPers). But TDLFAN proceeded to give THAT guy a hard time...berating him for "daring" to be late, and insisting that he waited around for an appropriate amount of time (5 minutes). I had the audacity to tell TDLFAN online and in private that I thought he was very rude to that guy. That's where all the "backstabbing" and other rants came from. TDLFAN (who I have met and, as I said, thought we were friendly) claimed that I "chose" to side with some fairly anonymous person against him... The simple fact was that I told my friend I thought he was rude. I'm sorry that all balooned into him having a fit and leaving the boards, but at the same time he started calling me names, commenting about my professional and family life, and all around just becoming hateful and yes, just a bit scary. I really hate that it happened, but if given a second chance I wouldn't say a single thing differently. I thought he was rude to someone, and I said so. I would say the same to any friend. The fact that he felt so "backstabbed" and "put out" by it is his issue, not mine. And that's pretty much all I can say on that issue (it really sucks though, because we have many mutual friends, such as Dennis and his partner who are coming to Japan, and due to all the stress going on here I'm not quite sure how I can meet up with THEM without stress from TDLFAN since he is accompanying him etc., etc...really a sad situation, and I can't for the life of me figure out what I could've said in good conscience to make things better...in hindsight I suppose I should've just lied.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Also seems to me that more people here miss Spirit and TDLFAN's contributions far more than those that are are glad that they're gone.*** I do personally miss BOTH of them. I enjoyed reading all the comments they both wrote. I thought they were both interesting posters (although TDLFAN got somewhat TDLTEDIOUS with his constant "do you appreciate my photos?" threads and his "shall I show up at the meet?" self-important rants. Many friends on LP mentioned getting quite sick of that. When he finally showed up at an LP meet, some people were pretty fed up with hearing about how very, very important he seemed to think he was.
Originally Posted By jonvn "But TDLFAN proceeded to give THAT guy a hard time...berating him for "daring" to be late, and insisting that he waited around for an appropriate amount of time (5 minutes)." Ok, well, that is ridiculous, but I can see that totally coming from him. I simply don't behave that way towards people, or try not to.
Originally Posted By sun-n-fun I agree with Minniesummer in post 112. Well said! We have lost members of the LP family because some can't handle the opinions of others. Opinions are just that, if everyone agreed and they were 100% accurate they'd be called facts. And and discussion entirely made up of factual informaion would be boring. I will miss reading their opinions, sometimes I agreed sometimes not, but I ALWAYS respected their right to say what they thought.
Originally Posted By Mr X ****"But TDLFAN proceeded to give THAT guy a hard time...berating him for "daring" to be late, and insisting that he waited around for an appropriate amount of time (5 minutes)." Ok, well, that is ridiculous, but I can see that totally coming from him. I simply don't behave that way towards people, or try not to.**** Yes, I thought so too. So, I told him. In some way, I knew it would be taken the wrong way, but I still felt I should say something. And so, there you have it. I'm a "backstabber", who "sided" with someone who's no longer around rather than siding with my "friend" (I guess I assumed friendship also meant it was okay to mention my feelings about rude behavior). There is even more to it than THAT, since TDLFAN also had some preconceived bias towards the guy because, as it so happened, he was late on an earlier occasion with ANOTHER person (I don't know the details), and also he smoked cigarettes. All those factors contributed to TDLFAN deciding to blow off the guy. And that's ALSO all well and good, since the guy in question did not give him a hard time AT ALL about blowing him off, but rather lamented the fact that they missed each other. The part that put me off was when that wasn't enough for TDLFAN, so he proceeded to berate the guy for not showing up on time (again, this was an earthquake that stopped the train, and the guy was 5 minutes late, and RAN from the train station to try and meet up). All things considered, I thought it sucked. Unfortunately, I dared to say so. C'est la vie.
Originally Posted By danyoung > If the arguments got a little heated so be it -- it reminded me of the family dinner table when politics got discussed.< That's EXACTLY how I feel about it. We all need to work at getting along with each other, just like you would have to in real life. jon & I are good examples of this, as we used to go at it like junkyard dogs. Now I state my case, he states his, and then we decide whether to escalate or not. In the case of our exchange a few posts ago, it's just differences of opinion, and his is no more or less valid or correct than mine. I can say at this point that there's a really amazing thing that happens online. Sometimes a poster (no one in particular) will engage in unacceptable or rude behavior, is called out on it by others, and then just freaks out at all of us whiners and babies, and then goes off for a long sulk. I've seen it happen many times. I don't know why it happens, other than the fact that we can never know what's going on in another person's life, and what triggers will tip him/her over. I just hope everyone settles down, lets the bygones be gone, and let's all get back to discussing Disney!
Originally Posted By Mr X **Now I state my case, he states his, and then we decide whether to escalate or not. In the case of our exchange a few posts ago, it's just differences of opinion, and his is no more or less valid or correct than mine.** I don't believe this is true. I'd have to see some evidence (please?).
