Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan The polygamy argument is a red herring dumped into the subject by gay marriage opponents, but generally speaking, it isn't my business so I don't think I'd oppose it. The only exception I'd throw out there, however, is that some religious cults have a tendency to make "brides" out of very young girls. That throws a major question mark over those relationships, gets into the area of free will, child abuse, etc. But in reality, polygamy is unlikely to become very popular even if it were legalized. Comparing it to gay marriage is really not that accurate. We already limit who can get married, so opening it up to gay couples in no way automatically opens it up to polygamists. Or men who want to marry sheep, for that matter.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 "Nope. But the reasons behind making gay marriage legal also can support making polygamy legal." So why don't you start a movement, Josh? I mean you seem so interested in it, and it is part of your religious culture, so go for it! If you're saying it's the same as gay marriage, then why not start the fight now? Oh, and your earlier comment about realizing that gay marriage would progress with or without prop 8...that's confusing. Why would the church spend SO much money to stop another state from allowing same-sex marriage if they knew it was eventually going to happen elsewhere anyway? Why not wait until there it's a federal issue instead of meddling in other state's affairs? Or is it maybe that now that other states are passing laws to allow it, you suddenly say, "oh well, I knew it was going to happen anyway."?
Originally Posted By utahjosh If you're saying it's the same as gay marriage, then why not start the fight now?> I oppose the legality of gay and polygamous marriage. That's why. <Why would the church spend SO much money to stop another state from allowing same-sex marriage if they knew it was eventually going to happen elsewhere anyway?> Good question. I could probably tell that starfish story or talk about how we stand up for our beliefs, even if we know the majority is against us. < Or is it maybe that now that other states are passing laws to allow it, you suddenly say, "oh well, I knew it was going to happen anyway."?> Suddenly? You wish. I've said that from the beginning.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <<No, it is not true. Know of any states that have legalized polygamy lately? Know of any movement to do so>> <Nope. But the reasons behind making gay marriage legal also can support making polygamy legal.> No, they do not. They are an apple and an orange. <<Because sexual orientation is intrinsic to the individual, and polygamy is not>> <That's your opinion. Show me proof. > It's not my opinion. It's accepted by virtually every expert on human development today. <What if a woman loves two men equally? Why can't she marry both?? How would that ruin your life? Can't you just butt out of her business?> If you think polygamy should be legal, say so. Work to make it happen. This is America - you can do that. But it's an apple and an orange with gay marriage. You're straight. If the law changed tomorrow to say it was okay for you to have multiple wives, you would go to sleep tonight a straight man, and wake up tomorrow a straight man. The LAW would have changed to allow you additional wives, but YOU wouldn't have changed. And guess what? Tonight I'm going to go to sleep a gay man, and wake up tomorrow a gay man. And right now the law in NY state and the federal level does not allow me to legally marry the man I love that I have been with going on 15 years. Sexual orientation is intrinsic to the individual, polygamy is not. Polygamy is merely a social arrangement that allows people multiple legal spouses. If you think it should be legal, you can work to make that happen. But it has nothing to do with the intrinsic sexual orientation of the individual. If polygamy is allowed for straight people, it should be allowed for gay people. The trouble is that right now straight people can legally marry one person of their choice, and have that recognized by the state, with all that goes along with that. Gay people can legally marry zero (in most states and at the federal level). That's inequality, and unequal treatment under the law, and that's what needs to change.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Hopefully post 34 puts a spike into the whole polygamy red herring once and for all on these boards. Perfectly said.
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF ^^^ No. Because it's been said hundreds of times before and it never sinks in.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Ok, Gay Marriage and Polygamy are two different things, I'm not arguing that point. I still haven't seen a good reason polygamy shouldn't be legal. And many (but not all, of course) of the arguments used promoting gay marriage can also be used promoting polygamy. That's it. And I'm right.
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF Oh, go find yourself another girlfriend and be done with it. Sheesh.
Originally Posted By utahjosh And I'd like to take the time to quote a few LPer's from threads past... (<a href="http://mb.laughingplace.com/MsgBoard-T-104240-P-1.asp" target="_blank">http://mb.laughingplace.com/Ms...-P-1.asp</a>) MR X: "I have no legal or ethical problem with polygamy, if it floats your boat and melts your butter. It's a free country." ___________ Mele: "Personally, I don't really care if multiple people want to marry. It's nothing I'd want to participate in but it doesn't affect me." _____________ donnyaz & Dabob2: donnyaz: "Dabob2 I would disagree with you that the 2 are not related.Many would say that intrinsicly that man is not monogomus and that intrinsicly women are." Dabob2: "Perhaps." __________ ecdc: If three consenting adults want to get married, I have zero problem with it. Let them do it. I don't know that it would be all that difficult to adjust current tax laws, visitation laws, etc., to include additional spouses. ______
Originally Posted By utahjosh BlueDevilSF, I'm starting to think that you don't like me or something.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I still haven't seen a good reason polygamy shouldn't be legal.<< So? You have seen countless reasons why gay marriage SHOULD be legal, and yet you still oppose it.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <And many (but not all, of course) of the arguments used promoting gay marriage can also be used promoting polygamy.> Not the ones you've seen here so far. One can always come up with bad arguments or bad analogies. Big deal. The serious arguments being used by serious proponents of gay marriage, both legal and moral, don't really apply to polygamy though, much as you'd like that to be the case. <That's it. And I'm right.> Allrighty then. Josh has Spoken, and no one else need chime in.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <donnyaz & Dabob2: donnyaz: "Dabob2 I would disagree with you that the 2 are not related.Many would say that intrinsicly that man is not monogomus and that intrinsicly women are." Dabob2: "Perhaps."> Leaving out the rest of the post after the "perhaps" is rather intellectually dishonest, don't you think? As for the rest - some people apparently have no problem with polygamy. Fine. Some people have no problem with, say, legalizing marijuana. And there's a case to be made for THAT. But neither is an apple-and-apple with giving gay Americans the equal right to marry the person of their choice.
Originally Posted By mele <<As for the rest - some people apparently have no problem with polygamy. Fine.>> But, but, but...people are supposed to be judgmental prudes! This is how it should be. Josh has Spoken. ;-)
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder I admire those who are humoring josh here, but he's trying to be a smart ass about this on purpose. I don't have the time for it. Later on, he'll repent or confess or baptize a dead person or something because of it to get himself good with Joe Smith or Brigham Young or Steve Young or whoever.
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF Re# 40: I generally don't like self-serving, condescending, patronizing people who regard themselves as better than I am and work to keep me a second-class citizen in my own country. I am glad that it's unlikely we'll ever find ourselves crossing paths.
Originally Posted By Ursula <That's it. And I'm right.> That's the funniest thing I've read on a message board in a very, very long time. No, Josh, you are not right. So there, take that! TTTHHHHHHBBBBSSSTTTT!!!!!!!!
Originally Posted By utahjosh <I am glad that it's unlikely we'll ever find ourselves crossing paths.> I'm at Disneyland quite a bit...
