Originally Posted By jonvn "You not only have said this sort of thing repeatedly, but you KEEP doing it again and again." OK, so you can't point out where I said what you did. I thought you wouldn't, because I haven't. Keep spinning. Does Al keep people on the payroll or something or do they just do this out of mindless blind loyalty?
Originally Posted By jonvn "is Al Lutz really that off base or incorrect if Diseny has even gone to chaging its plans because his rumors are so accurate" I have no idea what Disney may or may not have done, but I do know that Al has covered up stuff that was wrong in the past. He has posted misinformation many times, and tries to paper over it. It works, too. If you simply say you are right all th time, or have your little cronies say it for you, then people obviously believe it. "He's right at least half the time!" Instead of simply saying "This didn't pan out," as an honest and upright person would do, someone has to show up with the utterly ridiculous story of "They cancelled a press event because Al said something." Like that would even matter. As I said, it's not impossible, but so beyond stupid that if true, is really sad for Disney. If I were them, I'd kick him and his band off the property permanently. But perhaps they may in fact even use him without him realizing. Either that or they simply don't care. I don't know.
Originally Posted By Mortipoo Jon, I heart you and agree with you about Al. He is nothing but a self-serving media loving vaccum. He sucks it in so much he leaves rings around his mouth and smokes a cigarette after the event. So grab your latte laced with a shot of whiskey, and a bag of your favorite pork rinds along with your deeply fried trans-fat free churros, cause this is going to be one hell of a ride. There, I said it.
Originally Posted By jonvn And you know what, it's fine if that's what he wants to do. It's these other people who act like total suckups that is just crazy to me. It's one thing to be the way Al is, but then, when you get all these other people defending him to the death, and all the other things they engage in, that's what really is bothersome and scary, and it always has been.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt >>Instead of simply saying "This didn't pan out," as an honest and upright person would do, someone has to show up with the utterly ridiculous story of "They cancelled a press event because Al said something."<< I don't know Al, or care about your feud with him, but I have witnessed him, and the folks who follow his stories, do this. The odd thing is that many people can't seem to recognize when this is happening.
Originally Posted By jonvn It's not so much as a feud as not caring for his behavior or what he has to say. It's also not having a lot of patience for the devotees.
Originally Posted By Mr X It's definitely a feud. Let's call a spade a spade here. You guys have been at odds, you've even spoken to each other about it, you even acknowledge that it almost came to blows (or at least that threats were made). That'd be a feud. **The odd thing is that many people can't seem to recognize when this is happening.** Not odd, sad. Sad that there are so many stupid people out there that believe so many stupid things. Like this, for example.
Originally Posted By Moon Waffle What is sad is that if you take Lutz and all the rumor mills completely out of the picture and boil DCA down to the perspective it would have from a casual guest, there is so very little that has taken place in 6 years. The park opens, and then a lot of things (shows, restaurants, attractions, etc.) close. Some new shows are added. TOT, Bugs Land, Monsters Inc. are added. Toy Story is built. That's about it. With so little going on, it's no wonder that many flock to Lutz and others like him. Even if it's all B.S., at least they keep us dreaming about fresh, exciting ideas for future expansions, high-calliber e-tickets, and such. A pretty stark contrast to the reality that we're faced with from DCA.
Originally Posted By jonvn You don't need rumor mongers to help you dream. You are not bereft of an imagination. You can think up things all by yourself that you could enjoy. You don't need someone out there feeding you baloney that never comes to pass.
Originally Posted By jonvn And the reason why not is because it builds up your hopes and then they get dashed. Over and over again, then we see a torrent of angry people saying "They cut the budget!" or "There's been a delay!" When there was never any such thing excpet some website didn't get the right information in the first place. So people get mad over vapor. It is total nonsense. On one site, there was a person ranting in all caps because something Al said did not pan out, and they were angry at Disney over it. Disney never promised anything in the first place. Yet, they are the focus of anger, because some clown said something on his site? It's misplaced, it is inappropriate, and it is a waste of everyone's time and effort. It is one thing to think that it's fun to hear rumors and discuss them, but people take this garbage as the real deal, and it is not. It never has been. And yet for years we see people getting angry over things that are little more than empty words, followed by excuse making when the empty words don't pan out. Somehow, it's always Disney's fault that what Al said didn't happen. It's Disney's fault that Al's false information did not come true. It's never Al that is mistaken, it's Disney's fault. They cut budgets, changed plans, anything and everything is said so that it looks like Al is never wrong. Well, it's boring and people who talk about this are embarassingly stupid and naive. Anyone with a shred of sense would realize what a pack of tools they are being played for and would stop giving credence to these sorts of things, but it just continues. And none of it does anyone a bit of good.
Originally Posted By BlueOhanaTerror >>>It's definitely a feud. Let's call a spade a spade here. You guys have been at odds, you've even spoken to each other about it, you even acknowledge that it almost came to blows (or at least that threats were made). That'd be a feud. <<< Exactly. And anyone who points out evidence to that end, is labeled a "suckup". So petulant, and so childish. Virtually everything you castigate Al for, and castigate those who look at him with some objectivity (not the nuts who defend him on any count), you're guilty of, along with that vindictive Marcie whom you keep trying to defend with equal "suck-upiness". Anyone with objectivity sees it as a feud, colored with a lot of history.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Okay, I will admit, I haven't read the last 60 or so messages since I been gone lol, so forgive me if I'm sounding like a broken record, but this is all reaally, reeeally silly!! Read the guy or DON'T read the guy, what else is there?? I honestly DON'T get the beef with this guy, he posts RUMORS for God's sake, most of us with a brain and a semester of college under our belt can grasp that. Again, we are talking about rumors about theme parks, NO ONE lose sleep at night if they turn out to be false, who cares? But the stuff he gets right, great (unless its not so great ). And this is the third time I said this, but the what's coming down the pike is only %50 of the articles, its the insight of how the company operates and what's going on inside currently is JUST as interesting...especially for the one or two Disney dorks such as myself whose never read any of those 'inside Disney' books . I can get my share there. Anyway Jonvn, I'm going to imagine you created half of the missed posts lol, but man seriously, get OVER it!! Its quite telling, there are people, including you, that says some of us should get over talking about DCA, which is a theme park and been open for 6 whole years and yet, you have no qualms complaining about the same guy over and over again you had a falling out with over 20 years ago lol. C'mon dude, its called the HIGH ROAD! I've taken it a few times, its really fast to take and incredibly not many others ever take it . And really, every post that is made about Lutz here, which ironically was about some announcement and not really here only pumps up his ego and the saaame people moaning about him will be clicking on to his update just tell him how wrong he is I guess. Honestly, what's the point? Miceage is has just as many fans just as this place and I imagine won't be going anywhere soon JUST like this place.
Originally Posted By jonvn "And anyone who points out evidence to that end, is labeled a "suckup"." Saying i'm in a feud doesn't make you a suckup. Being a suckup makes you a suckup. "So petulant, and so childish." Yes, you are. Apparently, you can't deal with someone talking about Al like this, so you've tried to mount a campaign about it. Nothing you haven't done before. "Virtually everything you castigate Al for...you're guilty of" Yes, because I'm lying, and pretending to know things I don't, and am using my position as head of website to call people who disagree with me various names. "along with that vindictive Marcie " And this simply proves it, because much of her commentary debunks the crap that Al slings. So, you seem to have a penchant for going after people who don't like Al. And of course, anyone who dares be critical of Al Lutz is somehow not objective. Only those who want to kowtow to whatever he says is, right? So, does Al pay you? Or do you just do this because he's your "leader?" Which is it?
Originally Posted By WorldDisney And I never been on 'Marcie's' site, not once. I hear her name occassionally here like the last post, but that's it. But, if she does the same kind of thing Lutz does, maybe I will visit . But honestly between here and Miceage, there's not a lot of reason to go anywhere else. Lord knows I don't need a third Disney message board to waste the rest of my day on reading .
Originally Posted By jonvn "I honestly DON'T get the beef with this guy" I don't like him. That seems to be unacceptable to certain people. "its called the HIGH ROAD!" Is it? Well, tell that to people who seem to want to attack me for giving my opinion of someone ELSE. "really here only pumps up his ego " I said the exact same thing earlier. I suppose it is why some of the people here seem to want to continue this argument with me, which they can't and won't win. "Honestly, what's the point?" I have no idea. You have to ask people like BlueOhana who can't tolerate people not being a suckup to a webmaster, apparently. That's all I know.
Originally Posted By jonvn "if she does the same kind of thing Lutz does" She doesn't. She generally debunks what he says. She supposedly works there. Sometimes she will confirm stuff, usually it's to debunk, though. Like everyone else, sometimes she is right, sometimes she is wrong. Mostly she seems to be right. I haven't kept score. "I don't need a third Disney message board to waste the rest of my day on reading " Three is a lot, yes. I don't really read three, either.
Originally Posted By jonvn "That'd be a feud. " I wouldn't call it that. I dislike the things he does, I point it out, and that's about it. That apparently is an offense to some people. Maybe it is a feud, but I don't see it that way. I expect I'm not his favorite person somehow. But I relegate myself to just posting on boards, and don't really write blogs. My overall output though is probably more than his. It just isn't out on a web page.
Originally Posted By jonvn In any case, it's interesting to me that when I say something negative about a semi-public figure who seeks as much attention that he can get, some folks have a need to fly into a rage about it. Start accusing me of things. Then when I ask for what posts I've done this in, no real response, just more rage. And that's a perfectly normal response, right? I don't think so.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney "I honestly DON'T get the beef with this guy" <<I don't like him. That seems to be unacceptable to certain people.>> Jon, that's not the point and you know it. I'm not here trying to tell you to like the guy, read his stuff or agree, I think most of us are just saying we are TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT IT!!!!!! That's **my** beef! Again, its YOUR feud between you and him and yet, you bought basically everyone who reads these boards in on it. Jon, please don't take this the wrong way, but I DON'T CARE about your feud with this guy and I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the other 95% here don't care either. Its NOT to say we don't care about you, okay, that's not what I'm saying, I just get SICK of hearing how this guy is the devil over and over again by you. Why is THAT so hard to comprehend? Like I said, you want to keep arguing about it, FINE, just take it there!! I just want to read about rumors and not get how Lutz is trying to turn the Disney community into mind control zombies in every other freaking POST!!!!! "its called the HIGH ROAD!" <<Is it? Well, tell that to people who seem to want to attack me for giving my opinion of someone ELSE.>> What I find amazing, AMAZING in allof this this is that you keep saying you only bring up Lutz when others bring him up to you, but then you keep saying you're going to keep talking about him regardless, so WHICH is it??? Because to me, the 'High Road' will be to accept you hate the guy, he's worse than Hitler and then just leave it alone. How do you think me and Mr. X get along so well here??? Most people are 'attacking' you, because like me, they are just fed up hearing about it. "really here only pumps up his ego " <<I said the exact same thing earlier. I suppose it is why some of the people here seem to want to continue this argument with me, which they can't and won't win.>> Take it from a guy who was STUNNED to see over 70 messages posted here overnight . Really? "Honestly, what's the point?" <<I have no idea. You have to ask people like BlueOhana who can't tolerate people not being a suckup to a webmaster, apparently. That's all I know.>> If BlueOhana thinks Lutz is God (not saying that, just making a point) SO WHAT??? Many here think Doobie can never do any wrong (and you can't Doobie, EVER, I don't want to go back to Ban land please!), its his/her business. You have the right to question it fine, but again, THIS discussion, unless there has been a major turn in the 60 posts I missed and I DOUBT it, has been turned into about you and Lutz, ONCE AGAIN!!!!! I said were three options before: Make up, just ignore the guy completely OR suck it up and just get on with your life. Seriously Jonvn, you actually admitted to us this has been going on for DECADES now. Man, seriously? Are you going to spend the rest of your days arguing over someone who probably doesn't give you a moments thought anymore? Do you honestly think you are going to resolve anything or is this just a way to let out your anger and bitterness because dude if you know it can't be resolved, what's the point of talking about it for another decade? YOu have a son if I read that right. C'mon, this is what you are teaching him?? He has a problem with another kid at school, so instead of handling like an adult and dealing with it, you tell your kid to talk about that kid to EVERY other kid in the class and to bring it up over and over again and never let it go? Are you going to tell me that's what you tell your kids to resolve a dispute, because I doubt it and its called leading/parenting by example! Just think about it. Jonvn, with all due respect homie, you are coming out of this looking like you're a kid yourself. Honestly, if you were 15, okay, but since I gather you are maybe twice my age, you should be handling this much better!!!! (And I'm sorry if I'm coming off harsh. Its what we call tough love ;D)
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "... think most of us are just saying we are TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT IT!!!!!! That's **my** beef!" I have a question: Why do you continue discussing it with Jon if you are tired of hearing about it?
