Originally Posted By brotherdave ^^^As you probably already knew, the Raging Wolf Bobs has been down most of the season due to a derailing 'incident'. (Thankfully no one got hurt! I ironically was there that day when it happened, but was no where near it when it did!) Many are speculating that RWB may never reopen and may disappear, along with Dominator and Thunderhawk. As I've said, my biggest gripe with CF is their handling of Geauga Lake. Any other company who might have bought the park would most likely be ADDING attractions vs removing them. Even if they removed one or two rides, adding a smaller ride to compensate would have helped the public believe that they're not out to close the park (which I think they possibly are, at least most of the ride portion of the park). I realize that the park was somewhat overbuilt under Six Flags' ownership, but, attendance was much higher BEFORE the Six Flags changeovers than it is today. And gouging the public for parking, food and other things doesn't help get them back. They really needed to build the market back, but chose to not do that. Why should they when it would be competing with their flagship park in the same market? They only bought GL to make sure that no other company would build it up again as a direct competitor to Cedar Point. They'll never sell the park to another operator for this very reason. I think darker days are ahead for Geauga Lake.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I'm with you on some of that bd and yes, I knew about the RWB incident. That coaster wasn't great from the beginning and if there was a move to tear it down I don't think there would be an outcry. As for CFs handling of GL, I'm not sure they deserve a lot of blame. Six Flags did irreparable damage in terms of customer service. Most customers do not correlate "under new ownership" in amusement parks. A couple of things happened. First, I think Premier/Six Flags AND Cedar Fair underestimated the impact Sea World had on Geauga Lake attendance. Second, Cedar Fair underestimated the value a sea life park (not necessarily a Sea World park) had on attendance. Those dolphins and those orcas were like having a Magnum and a Millennium Force at your park. Third, Cedar Fair botched their introduction to the market by making some unpopular decisions very early on, (initially not honoring the free tickets for the reading program that Six Flags did, for one). Instead of coming in and being the new, good guys...they made matters worse. (I can only assume that was Kinzel's responsibility directly.) I think that market can sustain a smaller park with a variety of offerings. (Think back to Wyandotte Lake when it was basically a nice water park with some other rides.) That may be the direction CF is going with the park. Frankly, the GL side has a lot of "lakefront" property that would be very attractive to developers. Selling off that land might put a dent into the massive debt that CF incurred when they bought the Paramount Parks. And, it wouldn't come as a great surprise if that was their plan all along. Time will tell. But, if the last days of old Geauga Lake are behind us that will leave a void in my heart. As a youngster I spent a lot of summers in that park. As a teen and young adult I spent 5 great summers working there. I was looking forward to taking my children there one day when they got a little older but that may not be a reality. And, what a shame. Rainbow Island and the old Turtle Beach was one of the most innovative amusement park ideas to come along in a LONG time. In fact, I would argue that Turtle Beach was THE best children's water play area in the WORLD when it first opened and then expanded. (Note to amusement park operators everywhere: Time to start thinking about FAMILY ATTENDANCE again instead of the thrill junkies.)
Originally Posted By brotherdave I totally agree with you, skipper. Six Flags merging Sea World with the old Geauga Lake was the beginning of the end for both parks. It was stupid to make it one gate, when two gates would have continued to make GL/SW a two day destination. I truly believe it was ego driven by Six Flags management to become bigger than Cedar Point and compete head on. Personally, I believe that Cedar Fair was totally the wrong company to buy the complex. Any other operator would have tried to continue to explore ways to make the park successful. CF may have had that thought initially when they built Wildwater Kingdom on the sight of the old Sea World, but, when attendance stayed 'flat', they gave up. Dick Kinzel was even quoted in the Cleveland Plain Dealer as saying that "roller coaster fans can go to Cedar Point." They have no intention of building the park up at all now. The Paramount acquisition sealed the parks fate with the increased debt load. I was truly hoping that CF would have incorporated the Nicktoons into GL to make it different from Cedar Point. But now, I'm not even certain they want to continue that franchise. I'm hearing that Snoopy and the Peanuts gang may start to appear at the former Paramount parks next year. I don't think they will extend the Nicktoon license beyond their current contract. It's really a shame of what happened to Geauga Lake. It really was a nice park, even under Six Flags ownership. They just provided crappy service and did minimal maintenance. And the loss of Sea World was even more biting. That was a gem of park, now gone forever...
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Sea World Ohio was in my top 3 parks in the country from an overall experience point of view. It was a beautiful park (which I ranked just under Busch Gardens Williamburg), had a nice...intimate feel, and had a good load of shows/attractions that made for a nice day. I would go to Sea World Ohio at least twice a year. If they never left I think Geauga Lake would still be plugging along and much of the mistakes of the last decade would have been avoided. I know why Sea World left...it is just a shame it came to that.
Originally Posted By brotherdave I totally agree. Sea World was beautiful and well run. We had season passes to Sea World for many years, often visiting at least 3-4 times a season from Pittsburgh. A-B did some remarkable upgrades to the park, but, were not allowed to add mechanical rides due to the land lease with Geauga Lake. (I'm not sure why they were allowed to add the Mission Bermuda Triangle simulator during their last season. Perhaps because it was movie based and limited motion.) I know that A-B looked into buying GL at one point, but Premier Parks (later to become Six Flags) ended up buying them instead. Kennywood Entertainment was actually very close to acquiring Geauga Lake (and the rest of the Funtime chain - Darien Lake and Wyandot Lake) in the mid-90s, but Premier outbid them. It's too bad that neither of those chains had purchased GL. It would most likely be thriving today. Sea World would certainly be still here under A-B ownership and Kennywood would have never had interest in acquiring Sea World. Either way, SW might still be here if Six Flags had not purchased it and merged it with Geauga Lake into Six Flags Worlds of Adventure. I just hope that Geauga Lake somehow surives this downsizing, but, I think it's almost certain that CF will be selling off some of it's property very soon, mainly the parking areas on the ride side.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Pretty good analysis there. I will say though that Sea World was going either way. So long as they couldn't build rides or buy Geauga Lake I think they were on their way out. The costs of keeping all those facilities open year round (to accommodate the marine life) while only making money 5 months a year...and with limited opportunity for growth...just didn't add up to a good business model.
Originally Posted By brotherdave I'm surprised that A-B didn't try to make Sea World more of a year round attraction. I know that they tried a Christmas event once, but attendance was very light. They also added a Halloween event during the park's final season under their ownership. That was also lightly attended but was very nicely done. But, with the right promotions, they could have extended the season during weekends from April through December. They certainly had enough indoor venues to do this. As with other zoos, year round operation could have been possible, just open the park without the major shows. They just would have to adjust their admission during the 'exhibit only' months, versus the highly attended summer months when all shows were in operation.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I actually went to the Christmas event and it was beautiful. I should know, I had the whole place to my self to check it all out. Cedar Point tried a winter event too. I just think NE Ohio with it's breezy late fall and winter conditions isn't conducive to being outside unless you are bundled up to watch the Browns. The main problem with the winter events is that you have to staff them with X number of people no matter the crowd size. Cedar Point tried to use their Full Time (salaried) employees the year they made the attempt. It just didn't take. I have heard that the GM of GL was seen nearly in tears on the last ride of the Big Dipper this season. That has me pretty concerned. (If he was crying on Mean Streak I would understand. I've been driven to tears from pain induced by that ride.)
Originally Posted By brotherdave ^^^LOL! Me too!!! You sure he just didn't get off of the Villain? That ride can bring me to tears, too! Seriously, if that is true with the GM, I'm very concerned for the park and the Big Dipper (my favorite ride there!). Any idea when an announcement for the park will be made? If they are going to start dismantling any of the rides, they will probably need to start soon.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Well, I think the news will come sooner rather than later. If they are going to dismantle coasters for relocation that will be hard to hide. Kinzel recently purchased 10,000 shares. When a CEO does that it sometimes indicates he is trying to publicly boost confidence or a sense of stability in his company. I have heard from others that the announcement of what is happening might be as early as this week but tomorrow is Friday so who knows? If they are doing anthing drastic to Geauga Lake maybe they want to hold off until CP nears it's last day so people don't show their aggravation at Cedar Fair by not going to the Point in the next few weekends. I think we will know something soon and, regardless of what happens, I hope the Dipper is saved. I loved working it as much as I loved riding it and it is a classic that deserves to continue to operate.
Originally Posted By brotherdave ^^^Agreed! The Dipper is one of my main reasons to visit Geauga Lake. If it survives this downsizing, I would still visit just to ride it. If it doesn't, well, The Villain is just too rough for me anymore. I'd lose any interest in going to GL. I hope they realize that there are many others out there who feel that way about the Dipper. I'm hoping for the best, but expecting the worst...
Originally Posted By wahooskipper bd...I assume you heard the news today? No more "Geauga Lake" side of the park. What a sad turn of events for a once grand gem of a park.
