Originally Posted By DDMAN26 That there's always been gun violence but because it's mostly been confined to our inner cities where the victims are minorities it's not a concern.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer By 2015 more people will be killed by guns in the US than in motor vehicle accidents. But as long as the gun companies keep making their sales quotas it's all good.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip And not all of that is due to the gun companies or NRA (though I've very little use for that organization). The largest category for gun deaths is suicide, and the suicide rate is increasing alarmingly for all methods. Suicides by people in the Armed Services is at an all-time high, and they have certainly ALWAYS had easy access to weapons. There is something more at work here than just access to guns. I wonder if at times the REAL reasons behind increased gun deaths get lost behind the headlines.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I dislike too many of our current laws to have much enthusiasm for having even more.<< I saw or read something the other day about how enforcement of existing gun laws varies wildly from state to state, region to region – even when the actual law in question is the same. New York enforces punishment for gun violations, while other regions do not, due to overwhelmed courts mainly. If we can't or won't enforce existing gun laws, there really isn't a lot of point in piling on more. This is one way where taking a fresh look at illegal drug laws and other victimless crimes could free up the courts to enforce gun laws, and that might save lives.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<If we can't or won't enforce existing gun laws, there really isn't a lot of point in piling on more. This is one way where taking a fresh look at illegal drug laws and other victimless crimes could free up the courts to enforce gun laws, and that might save lives.>> +1
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>That there's always been gun violence but because it's mostly been confined to our inner cities where the victims are minorities it's not a concern.<< And no one is saying that stricter laws will eradicate it, just like stiffer DUI laws have not eradicated drunk driving. But just like drunk driving has been greatly reduced so too can gun violence be reduced ... and that is a GOOD thing. But it will be fought though and nail by the NRA, which will continue to spew fallacies to defend our dysfunctional status quo.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>One momentary lack of attention and poor judgement ends tragically.<< Day to day life is about "momentary lack of attention and poor judgement". We're human. And when you account for 'misteps' that DO happen in every day life - Steps need to be placed in .. in order to protect ourselves. Just when guns are suppose to "protect ourselves" .. we actually need steps to protect ourselves from guns to begin with. And sadly for that family .... It won't stop there. There will be more of the same, from one family to the next. Until something is finally done.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer "The largest category for gun deaths is suicide, and the suicide rate is increasing alarmingly for all methods. Suicides by people in the Armed Services is at an all-time high, and they have certainly ALWAYS had easy access to weapons. There is something more at work here than just access to guns." But the availability of guns is a huge contributor to the suicide rate, RoadTrip. And gun suicides are much more likely to be successful than any other method. <a href="http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-ownership-and-use/" target="_blank">http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hi...and-use/</a> " The preponderance of current evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor for youth suicide in the United States. The evidence that gun availability increases the suicide rates of adults is credible, but is currently less compelling. Most of the disaggregate findings of particular studies (e.g. handguns are more of a risk factor than long guns, guns stored unlocked pose a greater risk than guns stored locked) are suggestive but not yet well established." Using survey data on rates of household gun ownership, we examined the association between gun availability and suicide over time, 1981-2001. Changes in the levels of household firearm gun ownership was significantly associated with changes in both firearm suicide and overall suicide, for men, women and children, even after controlling for region, unemployment, alcohol consumption and poverty. There was no relationship between changes in gun ownership and changes in non-firearm suicide. Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hepburn, Lisa; Hemenway, David; Lippman, Steven. “The association between changes in household firearm ownership and rates of suicide in the United States, 1981-2002.” Injury Prevention. 2006; 12:178-82. We analyzed the relationship of gun availability and suicide among differing age groups across the 9 US regions. Levels of gun ownership are highly correlated with suicide rates across all age groups, even after controlling for lifetime major depression and serious suicidal thoughts Hemenway, David; Miller, Matthew. The association of rates of household handgun ownership, lifetime major depression and serious suicidal thoughts with rates of suicide across US census regions. Injury Prevention. 2002; 8:313-16.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<But the availability of guns is a huge contributor to the suicide rate, RoadTrip. And gun suicides are much more likely to be successful than any other method.>> Not to mention that when the suicide-by-gun attempt fails, the resulting damage to the survivor is enormous, typically requiring life support systems. Which, BTW, the taxpayers will cover for the rest of the person's life, to the tune of millions of dollars.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip But if guns weren't available, wouldn't they find another way? Personally, I'd prefer a bottle of fine single malt scotch followed by an OD of pain killers. I hate loud noises. Sorry to make light of a very serious topic. But I think people would use whatever was most readily available. What surprised me is that the second most used method after guns is hanging/suffocation.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 No RT I agree with you, if someone is determined to kill themselves they'll definitely find the means to do so.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 The trouble is that a lot of people aren't that determined. I knew several kids (either people I knew or siblings of people I knew) in high school or college who attempted it. It's hard to say whether they really wanted to, they were crying for help, they just got fatalistic and thought "if it happens it happens, if I live it means something..." maybe a little of each. One tried slitting her wrists in the bathtub, and two attempted OD'ing. In each case, they didn't die. Now again, maybe they didn't "really" want to - with teenagers it really could have been 50/50 - but 2 of the 3 came awfully damn close. I also know one guy who succeeded at suicide. He used a gun. I'm glad the other 3 didn't have one.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>The trouble is that a lot of people aren't that determined.<< Exactly. Research has been done on this. Survivors of suicide attempts, when on medication or not in a depressed state, pretty much universally don't want to die and regret the attempt. In fact, bridge jumpers will usually say they regret it from the moment their feet leave the ground. Depression is a tricky, terrible thing. So we're back to where we always were: Perpetrators of crime will find a way. Those who want to commit suicide will find a way. That's sometimes the case, sometimes not, but we don't need to make it easier for them to do it. Here's a very pointed question to the "nothing we do will help" crowd: What do YOU want to do, apart from vague references to education? Or, unlike every single other civilized country on the planet, do we just live with over 30,000 gun deaths a year?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan You can't make this stuff up. >>Man shoots self in infield at NRA 500. The death of a man in the infield of Texas Motor Speedway on Saturday night during the Sprint Cup Series NRA 500 has been ruled a suicide from a gunshot to the head, according to the Tarrant County Medical Examiner's office. The incident happened late in the race when Kirk Franklin, 42, of Saginaw, Texas, apparently got into an argument with other campers, according to the Associated Press. Track spokesperson Mike Zizzo said Saturday night that the incident happened "in or around a pickup truck" in the infield. Firearms were prohibited by Texas law from being brought in to the track by fans.<< More at the link: <a href="http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nascar-from-the-marbles/man-shoots-self-infield-nra-500-214951761--nascar.html" target="_blank">http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/...car.html</a>
Originally Posted By ecdc As of today, more Americans have been killed by guns since Newtown than troops died during the entire course of the Iraq War.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Well, they probably would all have been killed with kitchen knives anyway.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Well, they probably would all have been killed with kitchen knives anyway.<< That's true. Or cars. Or swimming pools. Or [insert latest asinine NRA talking-point here].
Originally Posted By Dabob2 You know, of course, that Michelle Obama wants to take your pop tarts away. And if they're gun-shaped, she wants to take them away twice.
