Originally Posted By davewasbaloo WDW and the US - both are not what they once were, some could even say they are screwed up. Interesting parallels.
Originally Posted By Mr X I don't agree that the US isn't what it once was. In fact, I vehemently disagree with that statement. Forty or so short years ago the government forced black folks to drink from a separate water fountain and sit in the back of the bus. A hundred and forty odd years ago America enslaved them. Now America has a black President. It's an amazing country that has the creative and moral ability to overcome great obstacles and right the ship no matter what, so I remain optimistic about America. And I don't think I'll EVER say "it isn't what it once was", although I'm certainly critical and I have no problem saying "things are not going well right now", in some areas. WDW will come back too, I feel. Heck, Disneyland was practically a cesspool when I visited during the DCA construction days (I'm only half-way kidding), and look how they turned the place around since then!
Originally Posted By Labuda (((((Spirit))))) Though you & I have never before talked politics, I see even more clearly now why I call you a friend.
Originally Posted By Labuda "Heck, Disneyland was practically a cesspool when I visited during the DCA construction days (I'm only half-way kidding), and look how they turned the place around since then!" Hmmm, so as one who never saw Disneyland prior to December, 2001, please let me know... how does the Magic Kingdom of today compare to the Disneyland of, say, 2000? Which one is in better shape? And, hey, at least no guests have been killed at the MK lately...I remember a couple of guests being killed at DL back in the 01-04 range.... not sure when exactly. The mentally handicapped guy on Splash, and I think someone when GTMRR derailed, IIRC...
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Hmmm, so as one who never saw Disneyland prior to December, 2001, please let me know... how does the Magic Kingdom of today compare to the Disneyland of, say, 2000? Which one is in better shape?*** MK is in FAR better shape than Disneyland was at the bottom...DL was literally falling apart from neglect.
Originally Posted By Mr X I visited DL a couple of times during those dark years, and in particular I was there both times within days of either WDW or TDL visits and the contrast was stunning.
Originally Posted By mousermerf So maybe all parks go up and down, sometimes dramatically? I though DLP looked liek crap in early summer but folks keep saying it looks spiffy now.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer ^^^ Yes, things can change, merf! What a concept! Heh. Even MK looks passable now.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***So maybe all parks go up and down, sometimes dramatically? I though DLP looked liek crap in early summer but folks keep saying it looks spiffy now.*** No, not all parks. TDL is very consistent with their maintenance and refresh schedules, as is DisneySea. Haven't heard any complaints about Hong Kong on that front either, though the park is still quite new.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer So...only American and European parks have their ups and downs. Interesting. Heheh.
Originally Posted By Spyderman Actually fans of the Tokyo parks should start getting concerned. It seems Anahiem and Tokyo have switched roles with Anahiem now getting the lavish attractions (Mermaid, Star tours 2, carsland, world of color) and Tokyo reduced to accepting smaller attractions (midway maina) and unnessary cartoon tieins (Turtle talk,cinderella diorama replcing castle walkthrough). And to this the news that OLC suffered a 90% loss of profits last year and the rumor that Tokyo wanted a version of World of Color but couldnt afford it and you can see there is cause for concern. It is quite possible that Monsters Inc. and the tower of terror clone will be the end of the Tokyo golden age.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer ^^^ Interesting thought, and most likely correct seeing that the econ is in the crapper over there...But where isn't it? That said, if they loose attractions, they won't loose upkeep, like we lost both...I think that mentality is too ingrained over there, culturally. Lucky.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***And to this the news that OLC suffered a 90% loss of profits last year and the rumor that Tokyo wanted a version of World of Color but couldnt afford it and you can see there is cause for concern.*** Not sure where you're getting your information, but I hardly think Fantasmic! is some sort of cheap alternative. Besides, if things were as dire as you claim, why wouldn't they just keep the night show they already have for a while? I do agree with you about the rides, though. I haven't been too thrilled by recent offerings (Monsters Inc aside).
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Well, to get it back to WDW. Screamscape published a rumor that there will be more pyro cutbacks in Wishes and Illuminations to save money. I was really disappointed with the cuts in Hallowishes. I can't belive how much they have shortened the show. Even my wife's two kids, who were seeing it for the first time, thought the show seemed a little short. I wonder if there will be more cuts to Holiday Wishes and the Illuminations Holiday tag. Of course, all of this is even more disappointing when you see the new show DL got this year for Halloween.>> And this would surprise anyone? ;-) Nickel and diming ... raising prices while skimping on quality to artificially make numbers look better ... and then massive discounting (that i hope snags me a magical WDW resort soon ... if not, I see the Hyatt Grand Cypress coming up fro $63 a night on Priceline and I just don't equate that place with a WDW 'value' resort ... or 'moderate')
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<(((((Spirit))))) Though you & I have never before talked politics, I see even more clearly now why I call you a friend. >> Right back at ya ... twice!!!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<MK is in FAR better shape than Disneyland was at the bottom...DL was literally falling apart from neglect.>> If we are talking the late 90s, early 00s, I absolutely agree X. But (you knew there was one, right?) even then, DL's issues were largely with the physical infrastructure. Buildings were rotting and falling apart. Even then, though, DL still beat MK in terms of things like show quality of attractions, entertainment, horticulture, merchandise etc ... it was just you leaned up against a wall in say the Tiki Room and you wondered if the attracion was going to fall down!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<So maybe all parks go up and down, sometimes dramatically? I though DLP looked liek crap in early summer but folks keep saying it looks spiffy now. >> I wouldn't say spiffy ... but pretty damn close. Many things that had just come back from rehabs were sparkling ... like Alice, Indy, Plaza Gardens, new pavement in Discoveryland.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***If we are talking the late 90s, early 00s, I absolutely agree X.*** Yes. ***Even then, though, DL still beat MK in terms of things like show quality of attractions, entertainment, horticulture, merchandise etc ... it was just you leaned up against a wall in say the Tiki Room and you wondered if the attracion was going to fall down!*** The other stuff begins to pale when the place looks like crap, though. I found the entertainment to be pretty darned lackluster at that time as well. But yes, I well know that DL has a superior ride lineup and overall vibe even if the place looks like it's about to be condemned.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Actually fans of the Tokyo parks should start getting concerned. It seems Anahiem and Tokyo have switched roles with Anahiem now getting the lavish attractions (Mermaid, Star tours 2, carsland, world of color) and Tokyo reduced to accepting smaller attractions (midway maina) and unnessary cartoon tieins (Turtle talk,cinderella diorama replcing castle walkthrough). >> You're engaging in the same misplaced hyperbole that got you in trouble in more magical realms. TDR has continually invested in its parks. Monsters wasn't a cheap clone. Neither was ToT. Have you seen how amazing Turtle Talk looks like in Tokyo? It could make me sit through endless DUDESSSSSS. Fantasmic (a plussed version) is coming. PhilharMagic and TSMM as well. And a new Cindy attraction too. And that's just what's been announced. More is forthcoming. Star Tours 2.0 will happen there just for starters. Something else at TDS. Like with DCA, I'd advise you to visit before you criticize. <<And to this the news that OLC suffered a 90% loss of profits last year and the rumor that Tokyo wanted a version of World of Color but couldnt afford it and you can see there is cause for concern.>> I don't know where you get your data, but TDR had a RECORD year in 2008. Most visitors ever. WoC wasn't done largely because it would have been a massive undertaking and Fantasmic gives TDS the same character bang they're looking for. <<It is quite possible that Monsters Inc. and the tower of terror clone will be the end of the Tokyo golden age.>> Based on what? Fanboi negativity? OLC has a damn near perfect record in running their parks and I see no reason to expect less. And they constantly look to improve the small things ... look at the addition of Halloween to TDS this year. You simply take 2+2=disaster. There's a lot to be concerned about in the Disney world, but TDR wouldn't be where I'd be looking.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<The other stuff begins to pale when the place looks like crap, though.>> Don't disagree. I just kept telling myself that the attention was on DCA and that things had to get better ... of course, they never should have gotten to that point to begin with. I hope DL's new Prez remembers the mistakes of the past, and doen't repeat them. Any of them. <<I found the entertainment to be pretty darned lackluster at that time as well.>> To be fair, true again to some extent. That's 45th anniversary parade that ran like a high school graduation with fat tourists in tutus sure was a low point. Never saw Light Tragic since it was there so briefly. But things like the Mulan parade, Festival of Fools and ... what was that show in Fantasyland? ... were all pretty damn good. And Believe also debutted around that time too, which just blew away any prior DL pyro show (and WDW's tired FiTS). <<But yes, I well know that DL has a superior ride lineup and overall vibe even if the place looks like it's about to be condemned. >> Yep. It is a VIBE. There's a joy there that I honestly don't find at MK very often. Sometimes at Christmas or Spring Break ... but otherwise it's a lot of angry, smelly tourists trying to do everything and being obnoxious over it. If you're at MK and stand in one spot and can't come close to counting 100 smiles in half an hour something is wrong (an experiment I tried with an old friend on 7/4/99 at MK) ... yeah, sometimes the Spirit does social experiments. Posting here may well be one!!! ;-)
