Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer ^^^ Agreed. So, what's this about the Walt Disney Story getting it's refub? Have not heard a thing about that.
Originally Posted By Spyderman I mentioned it before. I guess what's happened that alot of the props and items from the one mans dream s exhibit in MGM were sent to Anahiem for the D23 event but when it was over WDI wanted to keep the stuff in California where it belonged so there going to redo the whole show in florida with new props/exhibits etc. I believe the space will incorporate what was the narnia exhibit as well.
Originally Posted By mousermerf I don't buy the idea that they're firing the brightest and best... I've never been in love with Discoveryland's design nor its execution and DCA sucked hardcore and a who plethora of pink slips should have been issued. WDI is a cushy design job and churning out anything remotely DCA quality should earn you trip out the door immediately. "But he did this.. and he did that.." Well that's wonderful but DCA still sucked and in particular his parts of it sucked more then most which, while an accomplishment in its own right, is not a good thing. His budget was slashed? A good designer can make amazing things with very little budget. Part of being a good designer is knowing where to cut, knowing what's not important, and knowing when a project needs to be scrapped or entirely rethought rather then holding onto overpriced ideas and watching them executed poorly. There was no reason to build a ferris wheel first. There was no reason the roller coaster needed audio. There was absolutely no reason to build a steel coaster and try and theme it to a woody when you can build and maintain an authentic woody for FAR FAR less money. Fail. Out. Goodbye. Good Riddence.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Gee, Murfie Baby, bitter much? Let's see, I can watch Jets-Bills in OT, Treehouse of Horrors XX on Simpsons or deal with your anger and, in this case, misplaced posts. Gimme a few minutes ... <<I don't buy the idea that they're firing the brightest and best...>> That's true. They already did that. But who remaining do you believe fits that label? <<I've never been in love with Discoveryland's design nor its execution and DCA sucked hardcore and a who plethora of pink slips should have been issued.>> I guess that's your shot at Tim Delaney? I guess you chock up his over three decades at WDI to two projects, one of which the vast majority would disagree with you on (Discoveryland at DLP ... btw, have you ever actually been there?) and the other (PP at DCA) he had the majority of his budget slashed on. <<WDI is a cushy design job and churning out anything remotely DCA quality should earn you trip out the door immediately.>> While I agree about the cushy part ... and I also feel that WDI should create far better than DCA 2001, one must be realistic as to how parks are greenlit. Imagineers don't decide what gets built. <<"But he did this.. and he did that.." Well that's wonderful but DCA still sucked and in particular his parts of it sucked more then most which, while an accomplishment in its own right, is not a good thing.>> Again. Your opinion. And you choose to base a man's long career on one part of a flawed project? <<His budget was slashed? A good designer can make amazing things with very little budget. Part of being a good designer is knowing where to cut, knowing what's not important, and knowing when a project needs to be scrapped or entirely rethought rather then holding onto overpriced ideas and watching them executed poorly. There was no reason to build a ferris wheel first. There was no reason the roller coaster needed audio. There was absolutely no reason to build a steel coaster and try and theme it to a woody when you can build and maintain an authentic woody for FAR FAR less money. Fail. Out. Goodbye. Good Riddence.>> Murfie, you should head back to MAGIC, they need someone else to hate other than me.
Originally Posted By mousermerf Can't. Steve got rid of me when I proved him wrong And I lived in Paris - I know DLP. (Ironically I currently reside just north of Anaheim, and previously just west of Orlando - I seem to move from Disney park to Disney park.)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Can't. Steve got rid of me when I proved him wrong >> Really? What was he wrong about? I'm surprised I've lasted over there. There are more closed minds than the typical FOX audience. But Steve and I tend to get along. <<And I lived in Paris - I know DLP. (Ironically I currently reside just north of Anaheim, and previously just west of Orlando - I seem to move from Disney park to Disney park.)>> Is your name Kalogridis by any chance? Oh, and you didn't answer the points I raised above.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >> Can't. Steve got rid of me when I proved him wrong << Merf, you canned after you called Steve spineless in a DHS Thread about a Narnia exhibit...though it was unfortunate, I do wonder, what was the purpose of that? Showcasing the "low" side of Disney? I'm not being impertinent...Seriously, asking. I do miss the EPCOT updates, though. ;-)
Originally Posted By Hack2112 >>I do miss the EPCOT updates, though. ;-)<< Those were the good days. Good times... Good times...
Originally Posted By mousermerf 74 - thanks for calling me a troll over at wdwmagic. Your skill at doublespeak makes you a great TDA executive candidate. Quick poll - how many people actually work in the design industry? How many know what it takes to get something built, the creative process, and the politics behind it? Now, how many are pretending they know? You can do amazing things with no budget. It is a designer who makes those choices - not an accountant, not managment, just the designer. If the designer does not put it on paper then there is no way for it to get built. The ideas that are out there and loathed for the entrance plaza and paradise pier are the bad ideas of designers who thought those were a reasonable compromise. They gambled, they were wrong. Further, a creative career is not defined by past accomplishments. You are judged by your most recent work - quoth Heidi Klum "one day you're in, the next day you're out." And the past work is suspect in this case - how many of you have been to Paris and seen DLP? 74 tells you it's well maintained and the queues glimmer. That's not my direct experience. That's not my experience over several visits in the last few months. The CM experience there? Certainly not the foretold guest service you'll read about here and saying "oh, it makes me ashamed to be american." There is nothing in the whole of France that comes close to the worst of American customer service. It's not their culture - they work that way. Lived there. Know it. Accepted it at DLP and moved on to enjoy it otherwise. And the glistening design beacon of Discoveryland? What on earth are people talking about? It's poorly maintained, there is a lack of harmony by presenting visual themes that are directly juxtaposed without transition, and there color scheme is at best "dull" and sort of dirty looking. That's why people took it off Space Mountain at DLR. Further, that layout is haphazard. there's no reason to go behind SM other then to betray the forced perspective. The Nautilus is a bit of a campy joke, the Zephyr obviously "stops" when it hits the windows of the Burger Joint (side note, free mini cans of Coke Zero because they're trying to market it in Europe - gets yours today! You trot the globe that much right 74?) And the HISTA queue there is butt-ugly and hidden behind SM. And there is obviously a backstage walkway to connect it to Fantasyland because of poor planning in the layout - it's literally a backstage gate opened wide for guests to travel through an unthemed area to cross the park. We're not talking backstage at MK because there's a million people, rather an area they made "on stage" becuase the planning of Discoveryland was so poorly thought out. Kind of like Paradise Pier and the Entrance Plaza. Look at the graphics that were chosen, look at the stylization of the icons at the plaza - that is a design choice, not a budget choice. They are poor choices. They cost the company moneyt to be rebuilt unlike Epcot and AK which had solid bones to build-on. Rebuild versus build on. Add-on versus Do-over. One is a money pit, the other is not. One day you're in, the next day you're out. Auf wiedersehen.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Mousemerf - that walkway between Fantasyland and Discoveryland was not designed to be open to the public until Toontown was due to open in that space. That was the original masterplan. Sadly that is now dead.
Originally Posted By leemac <<You can do amazing things with no budget.>> Not within Disney you can't. You obviously have absolutely no knowledge of SAP project costing at the Company if you believe that the end product at the parks is entirely down to your perceived poor decision-making at WDI. Comparing WDI to the likes of Thinkwell and BRC is nonsensical. It is far easier and cheaper to be a consultant.
Originally Posted By mousermerf You really can't see detail can you? Someone has to design exactly what something looks like. Most of DCA could be physically the same but with a better art direction and it wouldn't be half as bad as it is. You really want me to believe that a massive ugly mural, giant ugly letters, and the failed attempt at a golden gate bridge are cost cutting and not a failed design? Yeah, the cost cutting said to screw up the forced perspective in the bridge. The cost cutting said to ignore the sightlines that allow people to see the backside of the mural. Yeah, cost cutting chose the mural pieces and layout too, right? Not a chance. Yes, the red tape is a mess at Dsney but good design is good design and DCA is not good design. Stop lying to yourself.
Originally Posted By mousermerf More poor design.. the "lighthouses" for World of Color. The original design, plainly on display at the Bluesky Cellar, weren't half bad - but they were expensive with lighting and intricate carved pieces and metalwork. No go for budget. End result and implemented design? Dreadfully ugly. They took nothing that was good from the concept sketches. That's either a lazy or incompetent designer. I've had discussions about those exact designs elsewhere - they look like a first year student in autocad was trying to mimic the original sketch but didn't know how to use the drawing tools properly. They didn't even get the silhouette right! The proportions are off and the details are nil. That's bad design - now we have ugly lighthouses. People do not deserve WDI salary for cranking out that sort of crap.
Originally Posted By u k fan I'll take the transition between Discoveryland and Fantasyland over the hodge-podge transition between FL and Tomorrowland at MK anyday. And unless sonething's changed that walkway between Fantasyland and Discoveryland isn't permanently open. In all my trips I think I've seen it open once!!!
Originally Posted By leemac <<You really can't see detail can you? Someone has to design exactly what something looks like. Most of DCA could be physically the same but with a better art direction and it wouldn't be half as bad as it is. You really want me to believe that a massive ugly mural, giant ugly letters, and the failed attempt at a golden gate bridge are cost cutting and not a failed design? >> You don't understand the difference between detail and design. You can have all of the detail in the world but it is governed by a design brief. In the example that you gave the executive producer and delivery executive (in this case Barry Braverman and Timur Galen) were responsible for outlining the design brief based on the mission statement and objective of the park itself. The designer is left to work within those parameters. The notion that any designer has a free reign to do what they want is nonsense. They are put in a box and told to do the best they can within the box. Blaming a talented designer like Tim Delaney for being put in a box by his creative leadership demonstrates that you have no idea how things work within WDP&R.
Originally Posted By Spyderman >> Can't. Steve got rid of me when I proved him wrong << Just re-register like I always do I've taken a break from Magic but ill be back! I always come back!
Originally Posted By Mr X ***You obviously have absolutely no knowledge of SAP project costing at the Company if you believe that the end product at the parks is entirely down to your perceived poor decision-making at WDI.*** I'm only chiming in to say that I find it a bit disturbing that you actually capitalized the word "company". Disturbing and a tad Orwellian if you ask me.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***You really want me to believe that a massive ugly mural, giant ugly letters, and the failed attempt at a golden gate bridge are cost cutting and not a failed design?*** Looked cheap to me. I vote cost cutting!
