Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<What is going to happen is that guests are going to figure out that its cheaper and you can have better quality food either; 1) off property, 2) pack it yourself. One of the thrills of vacationing at WDW was eating meals at EPCOT. With that out of the picture it certainly decreases the charm of the World Showcase.>> That's for sure. But I found the World Showcase eateries a lot more charming back when they had real menus, not paper ones that were changed daily or weekly so they could raise prices on a whim. Those were the days before the consultants came in and told Disney management how to dumb down its dining in the mid-90s. One day, I might even write about those wild, wacky times ... <<I for one am not to worried about the "meal" plan. Guests will now be eating more frequently off property. Guests will pack energy bars, water and such into the parks.>> I wish I had your faith in the intelligence of the average consumer, but I live in the country that created WalMart. The Magic Your Way Plus Dining is the most popular package in the history of the Walt Disney Travel Co. ... all that marketing. I just don't see that changing, especially when they're even willing to toss it in for free during peak hurricane season to help fill resort rooms. <<I look at this as an opportunity for the off the beaten path resturaunts in some of the Downtown Disney Hotels to shine.>> I don't know about that. Frankly, the only two DD hotels where I'd return to dine are the Buena Vista Palace's Outback Restaurant (an Australian themed steak and seafood place but NOT part of the chain as it predates it by five years) and the Hilton's Finn's Grill. Both of these, BTW, are located in the Orlando Enetertainment Book and are great deals. Arthur's 27 (on top of the Palace) used to be one of the top restaurants in Orlando, but it closed about 18 months ago.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<One of my fave locations for a drink at Epcot, the Matsunoma lounge in Japan is no longer open. >> <<Spirit don't forget that that entire pavilion isn't operated by Disney (like many at Epcot). It is their choice to opt in the the DDP.>> True, but there has been a MAJOR change/shift in management at the pavillion over the past 2-3 years. Gone are the Japanese managers and in their place are typical Orlando WDW managers. Immediately, they screwed with Teppanyaki's menu, raising the prices while cutting out items that were included with dinner. Then came the abominations at Yakitori House where the food is just total garbage. That's Team Disney Orlando's fingerprints all over it. I now tell people if they want a really good Teppanyaki-type meal to either go to Bennihana at the DD Hilton or travel further up I-Drive to the Shogun (same or higher quality food, half the price).
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<To sum up my feelings on the matter: I used to expect the best from Disney, now I just hope for the best.>> That's exactly how I feel. I didn't have one meal that was less than very good on my most recent visit, even the few fast food meals. But I also have learned a whole lot and carefully though out each place I was going and each item I was ordering. Disney dining has become the equivalent of Russian Roulette. <<In the past few years, I've never had a bad experience with the food at WDW. I think it's actually pretty good, and I come from a town where almost all the food is top notch. In my opinion, the food at WDW is a heck of a lot better than it used to be in the 80s.>> Yeah, and you also define evildoers as those of us who reuse refillable mugs ;-) I certainly agree that overall, there are far better choices available at WDW now than there were say 20 years ago. But that's largely because the place has expanded. Places like V&A's, Narcoosee's, Citricos, Flying Fish, California Grill, Concourse Steakhouse, 'Ohana, Boma, Jiko, Artist Point, Yachtsman Steakhouse etc ... simply didn;t exist. So it's not a very fair comparison, Nikki. A better one would be to compare the quality overall and value for money 20 years ago with today or, better yet, compare the quality and value at many of your fave WDW establishments now versus when the first debuted or even 5 years ago. When I do that, most places (with some notable exceptions like Cal Grill) keep coming up short.
Originally Posted By disneydad109 Maple syrup pie ? Boy does that sound good. Do you know how it is made? We do not have much maple syrup in the old north state but I bet I could find some if I looked.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I think the Disney Dining plan is the dumbest idea I've EVER seen from WDW. < I am in full agreement here. It has lowered expectations and then following some product. I still believe some bean counter had a % of people who will not use all of their plan providing extra profit ....and meals paid for and not used...i really believe this based on the way consultants would pitch this is a heart beat ( the same reason comapnies make you mail in rebates to theminstead of making them instant at time of purchase -- x% will never send them in) ----- The DDE on the other hand lowers nothing but rewards frequent diners ( and locals/DVC/AP) with a 20% dicsount on whatever you order...there is no need to feel like you HAVE to cash in...it just makes one stay on property more IMHO. Should't that be the reason ?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Really, most of our vacations we have often budgeted $100 a day for food for 2 people. And often met that budget. Maybe we have expensive taste.< sounds about right -- we plan on $200 - $250 avg per day for family of 4 -- somedays we are fine---other days not so much--but that DDE 20% off the top help us keep in the ballpark...
Originally Posted By vbdad55 best example for me of what the menu cuts have done....for the first time in 12 years I skipped Olivia's ---very sad
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<I certainly agree that overall, there are far better choices available at WDW now than there were say 20 years ago. But that's largely because the place has expanded. Places like V&A's, Narcoosee's, Citricos, Flying Fish, California Grill, Concourse Steakhouse, 'Ohana, Boma, Jiko, Artist Point, Yachtsman Steakhouse etc ... simply didn;t exist.>> I wasn't thinking about the varied choices available now, I was thinking about the horrible cafeteria food (that was served cafeteria style) at the Crystal Palace...the handwich (I think that was what it was called) served at Sunshine Season Food Fair (think bread cone filled with meat) and the awful meatballs and spaghetti I had at Tony's. I for one don't go to WDW to eat, although there are things I look forward to (Crescent City Toast at Boatwright's, breakfast at 'Ohana), and maybe as a result I'm not as critical of the restaurant service at WDW because I don't notice it as much. Food isn't a main facet of our visit to the World. I personally find the food better than in the past, but I don't think there's anything there that I've ever HAD to have. Perhaps you guys are completely correct - I'm not saying you aren't. I'm just throwing my .02 in.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<sounds about right -- we plan on $200 - $250 avg per day for family of 4 -- somedays we are fine---other days not so much--but that DDE 20% off the top help us keep in the ballpark...>> DDE is a great savings tool, even in its much pricier and larger membership incarnation. I think I saved almost the cost of the card at the California Grill alone. Within 48 hours, for sure, it had paid for itself with another year to go! <<best example for me of what the menu cuts have done....for the first time in 12 years I skipped Olivia's ---very sad>> Yes. I've always made a point to go to Olivia's, even though I've never stayed at OKW. ... But you really should write a letter or send an email to the people at the restaurant as well as Team Disney. They need to know they are alienating some of their most-loyal customers (yes, I didn't use guests because they stopped thinking of people in that vein a long time ago!)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I wasn't thinking about the varied choices available now, I was thinking about the horrible cafeteria food (that was served cafeteria style) at the Crystal Palace...the handwich (I think that was what it was called) served at Sunshine Season Food Fair (think bread cone filled with meat) and the awful meatballs and spaghetti I had at Tony's.>> Interesting. I always enjoyed the food at the Crystal Palace, especially the breakfasts and I don't consider myself a breakfast person at all. I also loved the Handwiches, which were served at both the Land and in Tomorrowland (at the place under the PeopleMover that serves those Mystery Bird Legs). As for Tony's, I was a fan of its prior incarnation as the Town Square Cafe -- the former East Coast home of DL's famous Monte Cristo. I've never thought it's been very consistent. I had one excellent meal there about five years ago. But I've also had one inedible experience there and a few unmemorable ones too. <<I for one don't go to WDW to eat, although there are things I look forward to (Crescent City Toast at Boatwright's, breakfast at 'Ohana), and maybe as a result I'm not as critical of the restaurant service at WDW because I don't notice it as much. Food isn't a main facet of our visit to the World. I personally find the food better than in the past, but I don't think there's anything there that I've ever HAD to have. Perhaps you guys are completely correct - I'm not saying you aren't. I'm just throwing my .02 in.>> And I, for one, will take your two cents (especially with gas heading to $5 a gallon)! Seriously, I love to eat (part of the reason why I've been at least 15 pounds overweight and as much as 50 pounds too heavy) since I turned 25. Food is a major part of a vacation for me. I'd so much rather dine at the California Grill than ride Space Mountain or Buzz Lightyear. I'd rather sit for three hours at Jiko savoring the fine food and wine than bake in the sun for 90 minutes to get on Everest. That's just me.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I hear you Spirit. Nice themed dining and great food is a part of what makes the Disney experience. I think we're getting old. ;-) For me, a great day at DLP is shave in the barber Shop, followed by 2.5 hour three course meal, apperetif, and a bottle of wine at the Silver Spur followed by a cruise on the Mark Twain. Similar at WDW - the hotels and restaurants, particularly at World Showcase are key to the enjoyment. I don't think I'd enjoy staying off site and taking bags of cheerios and bottles of water off in the park, with a hamburger dinner. I wouldn't likely opt for WDW then - DL would become my destination of choice if budget came in. That's why I like the idea of the dining plan (provided the standards stay high).
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I hear you Spirit. Nice themed dining and great food is a part of what makes the Disney experience. I think we're getting old. ;-)>> Nah. I'm Peter Pan. I'll never grow up if it means becoming as jaded and miserable as most people. <<For me, a great day at DLP is shave in the barber Shop, followed by 2.5 hour three course meal, apperetif, and a bottle of wine at the Silver Spur followed by a cruise on the Mark Twain.>> Well, I'd almost agree. I tried the Silver Spur on my recent trip to DLP due to many recommendations (yours included). But the experience was dreadful. The server, who had a passing knowledge of English, screwed up the order. I had ordered the filet but wound up with a sirloin (that I ate anyway). I later found out that the sirloin was right below the filet on the menu and listed as a 'faux filet', so I am partially responsible. But my guest ordered a porterhouse and was served lamb. I mean, there's no way you get that wrong. When it was pointed out, it was obvious the waiter knew and just hoped he'd eat it. Then, he returned 20 minutes later (after I had already finished) with a steak that had obviously been partially eaten and returned to the kitchen by another diner. Rather than take any health chances at this point, he just refused it and had a baked potato and salad for dinner. No apology from the staff. No nothing. If it had been the USA, I would have made a major deal of it. But I had already had MAJOR issues on the visit, including having a member of my family come down with a serious case of food poisoninng after dining at Walt's -- and had the fact I post on this site (and others) and have made enemies in corporate held against me -- so we just walked out disgusted with pictures of what was served and never said a word. Oh, and someone will have to explain to me how the only bathroom in the restaurant was missing its toilet seat too. But I'm just a crazy Internet geek, right Karl? <<Similar at WDW - the hotels and restaurants, particularly at World Showcase are key to the enjoyment.>> They always have been for me. That's for sure. <<I don't think I'd enjoy staying off site and taking bags of cheerios and bottles of water off in the park, with a hamburger dinner. I wouldn't likely opt for WDW then - DL would become my destination of choice if budget came in.>> Money is never an option with me. Getting what I pay for, though, is. Disney used to be all about exceeding guest expectations. But you never hear about that anymore unless it's because Cinderella spent an extra five minutes with 6-year-old Brittany when she was supposed to be done for the day. That kind of stuff. The sad fact is that at WDW today the standard is to try and meet guest's VASTLY LOWERED expectations. And they often struggle with that. <<That's why I like the idea of the dining plan (provided the standards stay high).>> But, Dave, that's just my argument against the plan. It provides the impetus for Disney to further lower standards. The food and gratuity are paid months before you ever set foot on Disney property. So if they suddenly use a cheaper grade of beef or start getting tomatos from Mexico because they're cheaper than California or if they stop serving bread or drop the side item that used to be included ... well, it doesn't matter. You paid for it. You're stuck with it.
Originally Posted By LPFan22 ~~~Well, to see all those morbidly obese folks at the MK, it must be (even if all they eat is fried, greasy junk food).~~~ This is an interesting thread but I don't think this comment was necessary.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ~~~Well, to see all those morbidly obese folks at the MK, it must be (even if all they eat is fried, greasy junk food).~~~ <<This is an interesting thread but I don't think this comment was necessary.>> I thought it was and I posted it. Obesity is a national health care crisis. I have an uncle who is 525 pounds and will likely die in the near future because he can't stop eating. I've had much, much smaller problems with weight issues (amazing how tough it can be to drop just 20 pounds!) most of my adult life. I won't sugar-coat this because some fat person might get offended. And since I see a great majority of morbidly obese folks at WDW, I can only assume there are some around here who likely took offense where none was meant. People need to get healthy. Wheeling around on ECV's at the MK so you can get that burger at Pecos Bill's isn't that way. This political correct BS designed to make people feel its OK to be hundreds of pounds overweight and be able to fit on/in theme park attractions etc ... bothers me. It makes it as if companies like Disney are tacitly saying 'This is OK. This is normal. This is a healthy lifetstyle.' To see so many OBESE children should be a national shame. And it isn't McDonald's fault. It's mommy and daddy's ... who are also likely fat.
Originally Posted By LPFan22 I get it. But why does discussing foods served throughout the resort have to start with an insult? As if the overweight people walking around Disney parks don't realize they are overweight. They don't go around saying your hat is ugly or you walk funny so why can't you get your point across in a more respectful manner? Obese, skinny, tall, ugly... they're all human.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^Yes. They are all human. And they deserve the same treatment as anyone else. They don't deserve special accomodations because they have an addiction, any more than alcoholics or drug addicts. But I don't want to get pulled into a discussion on the treatment of fat people. You're free to go off on a tangent, but I'm not going to follow. I want to discuss the dumbing down of Disney Dining due to consultants, inept managers/execs and the Magic Your Way PLus Dining Plan.
Originally Posted By LPFan22 ~~~I want to discuss the dumbing down of Disney Dining due to consultants, inept managers/execs and the Magic Your Way PLus Dining Plan~~~ No tangent here. Just wanted to point out that you can have your discussion without bringing up overweight people in the manner that you did in post #1. That would be the more respectful thing in my book. Enjoy. =)
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Spirit, I had forgotten about your bad expereiences. I can honestly say, of the 20 or so meals at the silver Spur and 10 times at Walt's, I have never had a bad experience at either. However, those experiences would have truly elicited complaints at the restaurant and city hall for me. Especially as they have both been awaarded international accolades. Blue Lagoon and Auberge are a horse of a different colour.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Spirit, I had forgotten about your bad expereiences. I can honestly say, of the 20 or so meals at the silver Spur and 10 times at Walt's, I have never had a bad experience at either.>> I don't doubt it one bit. Walt's was absolutely wonderful. Unfortunately, a family member contracted food poisoning there -- diagnosed by the doctor Disney had sent the room. It can happen anywhere. There were four of us and only one got sick (we all had different items of some kind). The Silver Spur also had wonderful food, but what they did in sending out someone else's returned food purposely would get a restaurant shut down by the health department in the USA. <<However, those experiences would have truly elicited complaints at the restaurant and city hall for me. Especially as they have both been awaarded international accolades.>> When you have 'friends' at Disney corporate it is never that easy. Rest assured the matter -- and the personalities involved -- are being dealt with. And, FWIW, apparently food poisoning -- and a lack of caring and responsibility -- is a common theme at DLP according to reviews I've been researching on TripAdvisor. Real food poisoning that can require hospitalization, not the more typical bacterial infections that result in two hours of bathroom time followed by a return to health.
Originally Posted By danyoung > I've been at least 15 pounds overweight and as much as 50 pounds too heavy...< 50 pounds too heavy? You call that a weight problem? I need to lose about 20 pounds to be only 50 pounds too heavy! Someday . . . As to the DDP thing, my major beef is with the way reservations are now booked. Restaurants are booked solid months in advance, leaving very little alternative to someone who doesn't get his booking in a full 6 months early. And they don't leave any of their inventory for either same day bookings or walk-ups, like most restaurants in the country. Disney is totally happy witha 100% booked restaurant, even if it's at the expense of a large part of their clientele. The DDP also promotes a lot of people to book the nice places when they'd be just as happy with a burger and fries. Which again allows Disney to dumb down their menu's, as you've pointed out. Not a good program, even though I'm using it this time around.
