Originally Posted By wahooskipper Hey, a little stress relief in a pressure cooker of a topic wasn't necessarily a bad thing.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Tom, the problem with your little theory world is that your way is NOT going to get us the intel we need to stop an attack now is it.> Actually, Beau, yes it is. I know this seems counterintuitive to you. But all the experts I've seen speak on this - and these are CIA or MI guys - say that torture is notoriously unreliable because, as McCain says, someone being tortured will say anything to get it to stop. Much more effective, these guys say, is treating someone humanely (which doesn't mean putting them up at a spa or some such nonsense), and slowly getting into their heads and/or befriending them. It takes longer, but that's how you get your best intell. Make these suspects see YOU as a human being, who is in fact treating the prisoner humanely - make sure they know that you control their fate, their only way out is to cooperate, AND you might not be such a bad guy... eventually they start offering good intell. It's not visceral and it's not slam-bang revenge fantasy, but that's what actually works.
Originally Posted By woody Nobody in the military has performed torture, not even close. They performed stressful interrogations. I don't know the technical term. The word torture is constantly misused.
Originally Posted By imadisneygal "Nobody in the military has performed torture, not even close." There are PLENTY of people, some actually IN the military, who disagree with this.
Originally Posted By woody "There are PLENTY of people, some actually IN the military, who disagree with this." I think we know it is Kerry and Murtha.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Dabob, When Jack Bauer REALLY has to get the information he needs he doesn't act nice to the bad guy. He scares them to death, then beats them until they talk. It always works.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Yeah, but Pembleton and Bayliss were always able to get what they wanted in the interrogation room without torture. So there.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Beau... I don't know how to put this to you... but... Jack Bauer is not a real person. He's on a show. A show that needs to be dramatic. There's not that much dramatic with the kind of techniques that actually work. Except that they actually work.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<Beau... I don't know how to put this to you... but... Jack Bauer is not a real person. He's on a show>> LOL, I showed this post to my wife and she totally cracked up. I still think the Jack Bauer way of handeling things works best in many cases. Same with the mob when they rav Vegas. You would have to be a TOTAL idiot to try and cheat in a mob run casino. So guess what? Not many people got out of line when they knew that if they tried anything they were going to get their head in a vise out back in the room where they hold all the old slot machines. Wait.... that was in the movie Casino. Am I living in a fantasyland? Are the liberals the ones who are actually helping the world and I have it all backwards?? I need to go.
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> They performed stressful interrogations. << People died as a result of these 'stressful interrogations'. You say tomato, I say to-mah-to.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>You would have to be a TOTAL idiot to try and cheat in a mob run casino. << Yeah, and how is the mob doing power wise these days?
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Not so good... Those damn RICO laws that the Patriot act is based on really worked on the Mob.
Originally Posted By cape cod joe post 106 I see you are married so that answers that question. Are you religious? It seems that you care deeply in justice so you probably are very religious like I am. Some people claim to be religious and don't understand that "the enemy" as Baptists put it, is all around us in the form of child predators, and these same "religious" people think that we should not punish the child predators who my wife thinks are filled with the devil, but not the people in our church. We believe in a just God who punishes the evil doers. Just my opinion and my religious faith. I'm sure I'll be made fun of for caring for the victims and making sure they won't ruin more lives.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer I think we have to understand that the enemy is not just all around us, but within us as well. And that by letting our selves fall to darkness by allowing torture or by rejecting the possibility or hope for redemption in others who have fallen, we are feeding the enemy's appetite for divisiveness and hate.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Good morning Tom. Are you fired us for the Seahawks to win??? In case you need to know, I am taking the Seahawks + 4.5 points for a " dime ".
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Good morning, Beau. It'll be good for the city if the Seahawks win. We made plans to go to our favorite cabin that weekend to celebrate the anniversary of our first date, so we won't be watching the game. Ironically, the cabin right across the river from where we are staying is owned by the GM of the Seahawks - I bet he won't be there that weekend. Good luck on your bet.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<I think we have to understand that the enemy is not just all around us, but within us as well. And that by letting our selves fall to darkness by allowing torture or by rejecting the possibility or hope for redemption in others who have fallen, we are feeding the enemy's appetite for divisiveness and hate.>> Tom, you really expose yourself and your thought pattern with the post above. If we were to ever torture, it would be a last resort in order to save lives, not to be evil like the enemy. You hint that we torture because we are evil like the people trying to kill us. ( Muslims who follow the Koran ) We are the good guys, but good guys have to do things sometimes they would never do in order to keep the country safe. Can you agree with that at least? Would you kill a man who was about to hurt or kill your family?? If you say no, then you really need to re evaluate who you are because your RESPONSIBILITY as a man is to protect your family. Bush has this same role, except America is who he has to protect. He does a pretty darn good job by the way. If torturing people in other countries is what it takes to stop the next massive attack, then it's what we should be doing. Anything else would not be responsible to Americans who count on the Government to protect the nation.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy << We made plans to go to our favorite cabin that weekend to celebrate the anniversary of our first date, so we won't be watching the game. >> OK, that did it!!!! Call me, we need to talk. You are not going to watch the SUPER BOWL when the Seahawks are in for the first time?? This is worse than gay marriage or seperation of church and state!!!! Actually, my wife would love it if I did what you were doing, so I am not going to tell her that someone is actually not going to watch the game. sshhhhhh
Originally Posted By cape cod joe Are you that tight Beau to only wager a dime after winning 5 yards last week? I'll loan you some cake as I like the Hawks too even up or whatever.
